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How do you handle this? Lead Commish Dies

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Re: How do you handle this? Lead Commish Dies

Postby Bobbleheadrusty » Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:44 pm

TomBrooklyn wrote:
Bobbleheadrusty wrote: but dont write them asking for the money right now.
These kinds of things are best handled promptly. If a delay is involved, the first thing the family may think is "why didn't they notify us promptly? Is this a scam?" or whatever.
Bobbleheadrusty wrote: This is different then [TomBrooklyn's] imaginary scenario as well. This isnt a billion dollar business with 1000s of employees that needs to keep running, this is a game, a gambling venture.
Probably the players involved aren't billionaiers either. The loss of $6000 to these leagues might compare to the loss of $600,000. to the NFL owner millionaires/billionaires. Do you think they would write off $600,000. or $6M because someone died? I don't think thats how they got to be millionaires. Not asking for the money is being a chump. Unless these owners are wealthy enough they want to write it off. Then it's their decision. But that should be up to each individual. It's not for us or the family of the deceased to decide they should forgo their hard earned $.

Bobbleheadrusty wrote: this is a game, a gambling venture. These arent paychecks being sent out, this is money you have already budgeted to lose that you arent guaranteed to get back anyway.
There is such a thing as a professional gambler. They know they don't win every time, but they have an expectation of a certain percentage of profit. And even for those for whom this is a game, that doesn't entitle someone else to knowingly or unknowingly abscond with their funds.

This is ridiculous. There is nothing wrong with contacting the family. They probably aren't even aware the deceased is holding the money. And if they are decent, honest people, they do not want to keep money that belongs to someone else.


Fine, you demand the money, I'll keep my soul.

This was a sudden death of a family member. Most likely a provider. And you are going to send them a letter NOW asking for money while they are mourning? Its just classless. The rest of your argument is pointless. If the hundred dollars you paid in to the league is that important to you then so be it, but to me its disgusting to be asking for that money now.

As I said, I would play the season as is, and toward the end of the year approach them for the funds, assuming they dont send you a check. IF the wife knew he was handling that money it will be easier, but otherwise I would write it off, my soul isnt worth a couple dollars that Ive already written off as a gaming expense.
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Re: How do you handle this? Lead Commish Dies

Postby TomBrooklyn » Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:07 pm

If you believe asking is some kind of sin, then for you it is. You would be wise to follow your conscience. For me however, it's not a sin. As a matter of fact, I asked God about this and he told me that to not to ask for the money would be an abdication of responsibility of whoever is responsible, and he would condemn that person to suffer His wrath for abandoning the interests of his children who are the league members at large.
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Re: How do you handle this? Lead Commish Dies

Postby mothaudio » Fri Sep 12, 2008 7:14 am

Wow, it never crossed my mind to put in a clause in our manifesto that should the commish die [me] how the payout be handled. My better half knows I collected the funds but how much? She has no idea. It's an awkward situation for sure but if done correctly I see nothing wrong with it.
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Re: How do you handle this? Lead Commish Dies

Postby FatFoot » Sat Sep 13, 2008 4:33 pm

I'd donate the league money to the family, or if the commish had it in his bank account, I'd never mention it again, and if asked, insist that your league was just "for fun." That's horrible, and I'm sorry for your loss. I've always played in leagues with friends, so any loss of an owner would be a tragedy for me.

Unless you guys are playing with crazy money (like thousands and thousands of dollars) then I'd just forgo cash this year. When you say $6000 across 3 leagues... that's a lot of cash. If any of these leagues were only $100 or so to enter, I'd be petitioning the league to just donate the cash. If some of them were over $500, then maybe you have a reason to be debating it. If it was a friend of mine, I'd rather never even put the question into his wife's or family's mind about "give me back my money." If you were willing to risk that amount of money for the season, then the cash can't matter enough that it would rise to the level that I'd be willing to disturb the family.

Horrible.
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Re: How do you handle this? Lead Commish Dies

Postby marley972 » Sun Sep 14, 2008 10:57 am

I would have to say Bobblehead is wrong and TomBrooklyn is in the right.....like another guy said if this was 50 bucks or maybe even 100 bucks then you could possibly let it go....but 6000 bucks is alot of money...and Bobblehead why do you keep saying DEMANDING...I can't stand people like you....you are looking in tunnel vision my friend....thats how you see life....your Crazy....and just to let you know people do pass away and it's sad...but life goes on....TomBrooklyn I don't think you could of written it any better, laying out the options were great....oh and GO COWBOYS
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Re: How do you handle this? Lead Commish Dies

Postby TomBrooklyn » Mon Sep 15, 2008 3:02 pm

FatFoot wrote:I'd donate the league money to the family,

It's fine if you wanted to donate the amount you put in; but to decide for other people that they should donate thier money is inconsiderate at best and outragous at worst. If you did decide to contribute just your part, be prepared to reimburse the league for your entry fee or leave the league or forfiet your right to win anything at the end.

If you donate other peoples money, be prepared for a host of possible problems.

If everyone in the league happened to agree with your sentiment you could be OK. But also note if you publically petition the league to donate, especially if you ask them to donate everything they put up, you might put some people in an embarrassing position, and some might quite rightfully not like that. The next petition that comes up might be to remove you as commissioner.

If the league members don't agree with your sentiments, you could have some of them anywhere from mildly annoyed to very angry at you; and they'd be justified. Would you be willing to reimburse those league members whose money you so generously gave away without their specific permission? What will you do if a league member asks you for it back?

What will you do if several league members asks you for the address of the deceased because they want to get their money back whether anybody else wants it or not? What if this were to happen after you were to tell the family they can keep the money.

What will you do if a league member tells you he doesn't give a hoot about the deceased?

What will you do if a league member tells you he thought the deceased was a bum and he wouldn't give him the time of day if he saw him on the street, and that if you had burned the money he wouldn't mind, but he cannot stand the idea of you giving his money to his family?

What if a league member tells you the deceased owed him some money and now he owes him more?

Are you prepared to reimburse any league members that tell you they don't accept your decision to donate their money.

The point is, while none of the above necessarily applies, any of the above and more things not even thought of yet could apply. We're talking about a group of individuals here, not you and not me. No one knows how any or all of these people feel about the deceased or their money, and it is not up to you or I to decide for them. What you or I would do with our personal funds is irrelevant. Whoever is going to be acting as the new commissioner is responsible to take care of his league members and their legitimate interests.

FatFoot wrote: I've always played in leagues with friends, so any loss of an owner would be a tragedy for me.

The OP didn't specify the leagues involved were amongst friends, so that may not even apply in this case. And even if it did, not all friendships are created equal. Some might be more like aquaintenaces. Some might just be "friendly." Some might be a friend of a friend that doesn't even know the deceased etc.

FatFoot wrote:Unless you guys are playing with crazy money (like thousands and thousands of dollars) then I'd just forgo cash this year.
It is not up to a third party to decide what is a lot of money to other people. $100 might be trivial to you, but a substantial amount of money to someone else. Maybe one of the league members has just gotten some unexpected expenses and is tight on cash. Sure, it's not going to kill anyone to lose that money, but it might make some unhappy.

FatFoot wrote: If it was a friend of mine, I'd rather never even put the question into his wife's or family's mind about "give me back my money."
Then you would not be qualified to take over the league and be in the position to make that decision; because you put your feelings and those of your friends and your friends families ahead of the interests of the league members--exactly the opposite of what a commissioner is rightfully expected to do.
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Re: How do you handle this? Lead Commish Dies

Postby FatFoot » Mon Sep 15, 2008 4:07 pm

You're clearly arguing just to argue. I've not suggested that I'd force my will on anyone. But I think that the direction that this discussion has gone in, and the vehemence with which you're defending what may essentially be a moot point has little if any value to the original poster. You've made your opinion clear. No one has any obligation to agree with you. So I don't see a point in your continued debate.

If I were in a league that complained about the suggestion of donating the money to the family of a league member who passed on, trust me, it would mark the end of my participation in that league. As I've said... I don't play in money leagues with people who I don't know, and pitching a fit over ANY AMOUNT that you can afford to gamble is, IMO, symptomatic of the type of personality I don't have a lot of patience or respect for.
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Re: How do you handle this? Lead Commish Dies

Postby Bobbleheadrusty » Mon Sep 15, 2008 8:17 pm

FatFoot wrote:You're clearly arguing just to argue. I've not suggested that I'd force my will on anyone. But I think that the direction that this discussion has gone in, and the vehemence with which you're defending what may essentially be a moot point has little if any value to the original poster. You've made your opinion clear. No one has any obligation to agree with you. So I don't see a point in your continued debate.

If I were in a league that complained about the suggestion of donating the money to the family of a league member who passed on, trust me, it would mark the end of my participation in that league. As I've said... I don't play in money leagues with people who I don't know, and pitching a fit over ANY AMOUNT that you can afford to gamble is, IMO, symptomatic of the type of personality I don't have a lot of patience or respect for.

;-D
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