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Dissention and Revolt

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Re: Dissention and Revolt

Postby MMeFFLBoss » Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:41 pm

Like other commissioners, I do stress the rules before the draft. But, I leave a small clause at the end of the rules, just in case if a "league vote" might come into play. The clause states the commissioner can create/change/drop a rule at any time within the season. It may sound like a dictatorship, and in ways it probably is, but the reasoning behind the rulings have always been fair and undesputed in our league.

As for the owner acting childish, and putting the ultimatum of leaving? Let him go, one of our rules for a absent owner is to use the fantasy rankings from USA Today Weekly for submitting a valid line-up based on his roster. Not only does it keep the league going, but, it also secures a challenging line-up to the opposing team.

Sometimes dead weight needs to be dropped. It is better to struggle through the present season, rather than not have a next season.
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Re: Dissention and Revolt

Postby flotsamnjetsam » Sat Sep 13, 2008 4:16 am

Goody wrote:
mateo150 wrote:So how do you keep an 8 man league from turning into a whoever sits by the computer wins league? There's a ton of players out there. I think the rules are great, keeps the losers who sit by their computer all day and night from winning and turns it into a thinking and planning league.


Use the waiver system. Everybody has a shot at each player depending on their waiver priority. Once all the players clear waivers (usually wed. or thur.), free agency is opened. By then, most of the better players are taken and the ones remaining are up for grabs. This allows each team a shot at the cream of the crop though. The waiver system also adds another strategy to the game, you should look into using it! ;-D



What he said. ;-D


spodog wrote:Never understood why Leagues limit the # of transactions. Just seems counter-productive to the whole point of this game to me.



Agreed. ;-D
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Re: Dissention and Revolt

Postby FatFoot » Sat Sep 13, 2008 3:08 pm

1 move per week is straight garbage.

In an 8 team league, it's even more garbage. There's always going to be value on your wire. So what if one team cares more about the league than others? I'd rather play in a league with psycho "ready to pounce" owners watching every game every week than with a bunch of guys who don't give a crap and want to put in rules so that there is no advantage for owners who DO care.

Either make it more expensive to pick guys up, or make it free, and use waiver priority, with everyone on waivers from Sunday through Tuesday, and it works fine in almost every league. All you're doing is trying to prevent your league from being competitive. If you make it so a team that loses 2 key players can't get replacements, your league is completely and utterly uncool.

I can't believe people accepted your rules on draft day.
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Re: Dissention and Revolt

Postby mateo150 » Sat Sep 13, 2008 3:54 pm

FatFoot wrote:1 move per week is straight garbage.

In an 8 team league, it's even more garbage. There's always going to be value on your wire. So what if one team cares more about the league than others? I'd rather play in a league with psycho "ready to pounce" owners watching every game every week than with a bunch of guys who don't give a crap and want to put in rules so that there is no advantage for owners who DO care.

Either make it more expensive to pick guys up, or make it free, and use waiver priority, with everyone on waivers from Sunday through Tuesday, and it works fine in almost every league. All you're doing is trying to prevent your league from being competitive. If you make it so a team that loses 2 key players can't get replacements, your league is completely and utterly uncool.

I can't believe people accepted your rules on draft day.


I don't see how one pickup (in a draft style) that gives the first pick to the worst team (in a loaded waiver wire pool) is anti competitive. That promotes more competition and parody in the league IMO. How does this make the league anti-competitive?

I think you DO have to care more in a one pickup per week free agency. So much depends on your decision. You actually have to....RESEARCH! If you drafted well, you shouldn't be in a bind. The 2 guys bitching, one didn't read the rules, one drafted a bad team with no backup plans. I don't see why the rules should be changed because they are stupid. Although they are bitching up a storm.



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Re: Dissention and Revolt

Postby FatFoot » Sat Sep 13, 2008 4:29 pm

The NFL season and especially the FF season is fluid, not static. Your system offers no protection for instances with 2 injuries, and other potential unforeseen occurrences. That's not right. That doesn't reward the teams that do more "RESEARCH." It rewards the teams that are LUCKY and penalizes the teams that are UNLUCKY.

That's just what Fantasy Football needs... more reliance on LUCK. :-t I'm sorry, but I don't agree.

Furthermore, IMO FF leagues aren't about PARITY It's about choices and adaptation. Situational awareness. That's what makes it interesting... not drafting a team, setting it afloat on a river of chance and just waving bye-bye.

By capping pickups at 1 per week, you are certainly not fostering a competitive league. You're surely making those pickups more significant, but you're screwing any team that is stuck with injuries, and potentially screwing them over further with bye week concerns for their replacement players. It gives a huge advantage to a team that remains healthy, and health is one of the aspects you can not research before the draft.

A team that loses 2 players in one week, and isn't allowed to drop and replace players has every reason in the world to think that your league's rules are absurd, and to complain in kind.

But what strikes me most is your pejorative comments about owners who are more active that you'd like to have to be. Guys who take the time throughout the week to make speculative pickups etc, and to read and RESEARCH (which you seem to think is a GOOD thing now, even though you implied that these guys are "losers" in an earlier post) that you apparently don't want to do, because you "have a life" should be limited because of your ideals. Yeah, you're not limiting competition, and stifling a league. And monkeys might fly out of my butt.

You have no reason to protect the FA/WW in an 8 team league. Short of roster churning, the appropriate thing to do is to get the hell out of the way.

Do it your way. Just stop being surprised when people think it's ridiculous. I am sure you'd be singing a different tune if YOU lost Brady and Colston.
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Re: Dissention and Revolt

Postby mateo150 » Sat Sep 13, 2008 4:45 pm

So how is the league complete chance? I do agree with the injury issue, and I'm not completely without sympathy for the guy who lost Brady & Colston. He did however get first pickup and got Cutler. We have 19 roster spots on the team so hopefully people will have drafted for a bye week or so. I don't ever recall saying research was a bad thing...where did I say that? I don't like guys who make 10 pickups a week and just pre-empt everyone to waiver picks after injury. Say for instance in week 7 that LT goes down but the LT owner happens to be in last place in the league, at least it gives them a chance to get LT's backup before computer hawk does. I don't recall ever saying anywhere that research was a bad thing.

But I do have sympathy for the situation...its rare though. very rare. The guy picked up Cutler so he has him at QB, he has plax, desean jackson, and braylon edwards at wr. I don't think his season is over by any means, especially if he gets a few more first dibbs pickups in coming weeks.

I know how Fatfoot feels, although I don't think he actually read my posts beyond "one pickup per week", but should rules have to be amended for this guy? I don't think so, its unfortunate, but it happens. I averaged 20 pts more per game than anyone else in my league last year (open ww system), but lost in the first round of the playoffs because my guys didn't produce. There's always luck involved. I don't think his season is over. He's hurting at RB, but he made some bad choices there.
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Re: Dissention and Revolt

Postby FatFoot » Sat Sep 13, 2008 5:04 pm

So how do you keep an 8 man league from turning into a whoever sits by the computer wins league? There's a ton of players out there. I think the rules are great, keeps the losers who sit by their computer all day and night from winning and turns it into a thinking and planning league.


I have read what you've said. The above indicates your disdain for owners who are active in FF, and your presumption that your fellow players are just sitting by the computer all day, waiting for the opportunity to screw you over. Implementing protections for such a scenario is what makes your league better suited for the lazy and disinterested.

Now, if you would refrain from misquoting, you might realize that I never said that everything is left up to chance in your league. But you certainly are punishing unluckiness and rewarding luckiness. A team with Braylon, DeSean and Plax shouldn't be treated differently than a team that is now short one top tier WR, as you're in an 8 team league... all teams should be stacked. That's how it goes.

The "LT injury" hypothetical... most leagues have ALL PLAYERS on waivers from Sunday morning through Tuesday night. So if LT gets hurt, it's almost certainly going to occur in that period, and then his replacement is a matter of waiver priority... besides the fact that in an 8 team league you should all have depth enough that you wouldn't want to play the RBBC leftovers in San Diego in that event. But Waivers eliminate any controversy there. And handcuffs are the other option.

You've left yourself open to a ton of problems, by only drafting 16 rounds and leaving 3 open spots per team. If anything will entice someone to pick up injury backups from other teams, it's that freedom to do so with an empty roster spot. If Adrian Peterson goes down, but he's not on my team... and I have an open spot and priority in your league, do you think Adrian's owner has a snowballs chance of picking up Chester Taylor?

The situations you're trying to avoid are only exacerbated in your league, except here you're also punishing people for being unlucky.
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Re: Dissention and Revolt

Postby mateo150 » Sat Sep 13, 2008 5:22 pm

FatFoot wrote:Furthermore, IMO FF leagues aren't about PARITY It's about choices and adaptation. Situational awareness. That's what makes it interesting... not drafting a team, setting it afloat on a river of chance and just waving bye-bye.


Sorry, If I misquoted you, but I took that statement of "not drafting a team, setting it afloat on a river of chance and just waving bye-bye" as "total chance". I still think there's plenty of steering. You still haven't said where I claimed that research was bad if we're being knit picky about misquotes and flame wars. You had quite a rant attacking me about something I never said.

As for the screwing over situation, yes, I've been in a few of those leagues. I suppose it wasn't waiver wire protected. I was in a league with someone who had Alexander that one year (2005?) and someone picked up his backup like 5 minutes after he got hurt. A big argument happened, next year we went to one pickup. "I had Alexander! But I'm in last place, I need Morris!" etc...

I've played in a few one pickup per week leagues and we've never really had any problems. This guy knew the rules and the possiblity of injury, just as everyone else did. He's bitching totally about it, he's sent me like 10 txts in 2 days demanding additional picks. I've put it up to a league vote and no one voted.

As for the 3 open slots, they will be gone by week 4. People can look to bye weeks and such in these first 3 weeks. I actually have AP and I drafted Taylor. I'd think whoever had AP but didn't draft Taylor was stupid and deserves the ill fate that follows if AP get injured.

What situations am I trying to avoid that are only exacerbated in the league? I may be punishing injury a bit unfairly, but that's a part of the game and the one pickup rule was a result of the 8 man league (overly loaded free agent pool every week). With so many roster spots and a small league, I figure there's only a few guys that are worth handcuffing, Brady should have been one of them. No?

Anyway, his situation isn't created because of this rule, he's angry he lost brady and colston and wants access to that rich 8 team waiver wire pool with priority because of IR. With his team and situation, its not like he's worse off than teams that lost brady that are in other leagues. I really think he should try to come out of this 3-3, get colston back, make some quality free agent pickups (which is helped because he doesn't have brady/colston and will be putting up more points), and gear up a nicely drafted free agent pool for a post season kick. But he's bitching up a storm.



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QB - McNabb, Rivers, Cutler
RB - A. Peterson, Lynch, Forte, Ryan Grant, S. Young, C. Taylor
WR - Fitz, Chambers, Galloway, Burleson
TE - Shockey, Heath Miller
Tennessee D, Jacksonville D
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Re: Dissention and Revolt

Postby dupree » Sat Sep 13, 2008 10:15 pm

Seems that you didn't come here looking for help with the question of "how should this be handled" but rather wanted some "yes men" to confirm your beliefs and disdain for the "complainer". Why else would you hotly debate and disagree every bit of advice given on the issue.

And only because I love to beat dead horses (I think it is the flies), as obviously this is not open for debate in your opinion.....

I agree that a 24x7 Free for all FA approach is by far the worst situation but unfortunately it looks like you and your leaguemates went WAY to far in the other direction as a result of the situation that you ran into in a previous season.

The waiver system on ESPN does work as intended (and has for at least the 3 years we have played there) perhaps you just need to re-read the faq. I found it pretty confusing trying to set it up in year one based on the lack of documentation but after the first week of seeing it in action there was a big AHA (as in "oh that is what they meant).

Players lock at game time and all claims made Sun-Wed. are queued up based on Waiver order and process at 3am on Thursday morning (at least for us; in general this bit is configurable to be earlier and/or later in the week thereby limiting or even eliminating FirstComeFirstServed FA period) each 1 successful move puts you at the back of the line before your second move may process after the queue is empty it is a FCFS basis until game time when players lock, "Dropped' players also sit on waivers for 48 hours (unless game time is < 48 hours away from when the player was dropped) before going into the FA pool which again defeats the "Computer hawks" from snatching dropped players before the other owners have a chance to see what happened.


And this is not a "snide" comment, but rather meant as a friendly heads up; parody is the stuff of Weird Al. You are after parity in your league and unlimited (or at least more reasonably limited) FA moves are the way to achieve that.
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Re: Dissention and Revolt

Postby JasonSeahorn » Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:39 pm

Although it is rare that a team may suffer 2 serious injuries in the same week, it can happen so it's important for the league to be prepared for it. I don't think 1 move per week is enough, but if your league has been set up like that for the past few years and no one asked for a change before the season started, that owner just has to deal with it and can propose a change for next year.
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