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Uproar over Nazi ties to new Jets/Giants stadum

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Re: Uproar over Nazi ties to new Jets/Giants stadum

Postby knapplc » Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:31 pm

Matthias wrote:
knapplc wrote:To kind of go along with Amazinz' point, Matthias - you do, of course, recognize the fact that the PC movement has infected the mass media, right? I don't think anyone is going to claim they're immune from this. So while your contention that people want spicy, salon-style news is true, they also want the pablum of their little PC Nation fed to them as well. That sells papers too, just not to the extent that celebrity gossip does.

I refute the basic assumption that this thing springs from the PC movement as an origin. People have been grandstanding and feigning mock outrage over things which they don't really believe for much longer than the past 20 years. And they do it on both sides of the aisle.

I refute your refutation, and further I challenge you to a duel. Palindromes at dawn! Ten paces!

I await your second, sir. :^
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Re: Uproar over Nazi ties to new Jets/Giants stadum

Postby Amazinz » Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:56 pm

Matthias wrote:
Amazinz wrote:Again, I believe you are focusing on a symptom. There is a sensationalistic aspect to the media but for every story they sensationalize there has to be a return or else they wouldn't do it. The reason that return exists (in this case) is because of our PC culture. People feel obligated to be outraged when it's likely that most don't even care. And I don't mean to make like of antisemitism but I think most people would agree that that is not what we are dealing with here.

Crocodile tears or manufactured outraged date back further than the PC movement. You may as well say that this is a result of Willie Horton or the Daisy ad.

I know conservatives just enjoy lumping all the problems they see into, "liberalism" or things like the PC movement, but as the saying goes, that dog just won't hunt.

"Manufactured outrage" has probably existed since the dawn of human communication but I believe it is at a fevered pitch in our culture. As for the ad hominem argument, I'm not really sure what the point is. Yes, I'm generally conservative but I haven't mentioned liberalism or tried to place the blame on them. For the record, I do not even believe that.
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Re: Uproar over Nazi ties to new Jets/Giants stadum

Postby knapplc » Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:04 pm

All jokes aside, Matthias, your points about the PC movement being 20 years old are well-founded, but out of place in this context. We're not talking about a press report from 20, 30 or 200,000 years ago. We're talking about a press report from today. TODAY, the press is awash in PC nonsense, and this kind of story gets far more legs than it should in part because the PC world wants to read PC stories, and the very "manufactured rage" you talk about is alive and well, TODAY.

Origins notwithstanding, the fact remains that this story is fueled in part by PC nonsense.
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Re: Uproar over Nazi ties to new Jets/Giants stadum

Postby Matthias » Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:23 pm

knapplc wrote:All jokes aside, Matthias, your points about the PC movement being 20 years old are well-founded, but out of place in this context. We're not talking about a press report from 20, 30 or 200,000 years ago. We're talking about a press report from today. TODAY, the press is awash in PC nonsense, and this kind of story gets far more legs than it should in part because the PC world wants to read PC stories, and the very "manufactured rage" you talk about is alive and well, TODAY.

Origins notwithstanding, the fact remains that this story is fueled in part by PC nonsense.

Would you call the McCain camp's blowback on the, "lipstick on a pig" PC nonsense? I think it's just straight-up cynicism. I certainly don't think the people that would be thought of as, "the PC set" are the ones being targeted with all the noise and clatter.

But when moochman says, "Darn PC world" and TheDiplomats says, "Got to love the liberal turn society is taking" it's clear who they're blaming for the ridiculousness. And my point is that parties on both sides play the game and the game is bigger than just modern, perceived slights. In short, I don't think that it has anything to do with liberals (or conservatives, for that matter) but when people toss out things like, "PC world" it's clear whose doorstep they're laying it.
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Re: Uproar over Nazi ties to new Jets/Giants stadum

Postby CrashOverrid3 » Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:30 pm

Matthias wrote:
knapplc wrote:All jokes aside, Matthias, your points about the PC movement being 20 years old are well-founded, but out of place in this context. We're not talking about a press report from 20, 30 or 200,000 years ago. We're talking about a press report from today. TODAY, the press is awash in PC nonsense, and this kind of story gets far more legs than it should in part because the PC world wants to read PC stories, and the very "manufactured rage" you talk about is alive and well, TODAY.

Origins notwithstanding, the fact remains that this story is fueled in part by PC nonsense.

Would you call the McCain camp's blowback on the, "lipstick on a pig" PC nonsense? I think it's just straight-up cynicism. I certainly don't think the people that would be thought of as, "the PC set" are the ones being targeted with all the noise and clatter.

But when moochman says, "Darn PC world" and TheDiplomats says, "Got to love the liberal turn society is taking" it's clear who they're blaming for the ridiculousness. And my point is that parties on both sides play the game and the game is bigger than just modern, perceived slights. In short, I don't think that it has anything to do with liberals (or conservatives, for that matter) but when people toss out things like, "PC world" it's clear whose doorstep they're laying it.


Very well written, and very much agreed.

I am a liberal, to some extents (although I hate the labels) and I do not go around trying to be hyper PC.. and I surely do not like someone trying to paint a picture with rainbows and hearts when that is not the case.

*At least no one said "bleeding heart liberals" that statement causes me to break out in a Incredible Hulk rage :P
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Re: Uproar over Nazi ties to new Jets/Giants stadum

Postby moochman » Fri Sep 12, 2008 5:35 pm

Matthias wrote:
knapplc wrote:All jokes aside, Matthias, your points about the PC movement being 20 years old are well-founded, but out of place in this context. We're not talking about a press report from 20, 30 or 200,000 years ago. We're talking about a press report from today. TODAY, the press is awash in PC nonsense, and this kind of story gets far more legs than it should in part because the PC world wants to read PC stories, and the very "manufactured rage" you talk about is alive and well, TODAY.

Origins notwithstanding, the fact remains that this story is fueled in part by PC nonsense.

Would you call the McCain camp's blowback on the, "lipstick on a pig" PC nonsense? I think it's just straight-up cynicism. I certainly don't think the people that would be thought of as, "the PC set" are the ones being targeted with all the noise and clatter.

But when moochman says, "Darn PC world" and TheDiplomats says, "Got to love the liberal turn society is taking" it's clear who they're blaming for the ridiculousness. And my point is that parties on both sides play the game and the game is bigger than just modern, perceived slights. In short, I don't think that it has anything to do with liberals (or conservatives, for that matter) but when people toss out things like, "PC world" it's clear whose doorstep they're laying it.


Mattias, I don't have a problem with people disagreeing with me. Heck if I did I couldn't post most of my thoughts. But if you are going to quote me as the person saying it's a darn PC world, try and get it right. First off, I was responding to the term PC used by a poster prior to me, and secondly I followed that with some pretty sarcastic humor that should have shown the tongue-in-cheek nature of my post. It was not meant to be a political statement, in part so as to not illicit a political response or a call to move it to the GT.
To further link my quote with the Diplomats's liberal turn statement is something I find totally incorrect. The PC movement is not a liberal movement, but a conservative one. And whether you want to believe it or not, PC is infesting the press more and more each day. It is easier to censor than it is to try and understand, or even think for oneself.
Now I am not accusing any one of such, just explaining my views on what PC means. And I certainly do blame the PC turn that media and society seem to want to continue with. You cannot change history by burying our heads in the sand. To deny naming rights based solely on a history of a Co. that is older than most people that will fill that stadium without first exloring and exposing that Co's recent and current policy is sticking heads into sand and failing to expose or reveal the changes that can be made in 6 decades. To me that type of PC knee-jerk reactionism is a disservice to all that are truely offended at the thought of Allianz having naming rights.
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Re: Uproar over Nazi ties to new Jets/Giants stadum

Postby Omaha Red Sox » Fri Sep 12, 2008 6:26 pm

So people still have a problem with the Nazis?
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Re: Uproar over Nazi ties to new Jets/Giants stadum

Postby Matthias » Fri Sep 12, 2008 6:37 pm

Sorry, moochman, for imputing you with the wrong intentions; I didn't see a PC comment before yours and just didn't pick up on the sarcasm.

As far as the PC movement, though, it is fundamentally a liberal movement. The basic gist of it from the get-go is that if you remove perjorative terms that are associated with gender, race, sexual identity, etc., then there won't be an automatic negative association with these identities, or at least if you don't remove them, you'll definitely keep around a negative association.

But this has nothing to do with people associating Allianz with Nazis. Really, nothing. To say that the PC movement leads to censorship and thus enables this type of censorship is like saying high-fat diets lead to early deaths and thus enables handgun shootings; the two have a common end-point, but are pretty disassociated everywhere else.
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Re: Uproar over Nazi ties to new Jets/Giants stadum

Postby Amazinz » Fri Sep 12, 2008 7:57 pm

The PC culture in the U.S. bears little resemblance to the "gist" of the original movement. Perhaps there's a better name than PC culture? That way we don't have to argue semantics because it was pretty clear from the onset that we were not discussing political correctness as it was used in 1990. Political correctness may have started as a noble liberal ideal but in the end it became the very intolerance it was trying to combat.
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Re: Uproar over Nazi ties to new Jets/Giants stadum

Postby knapplc » Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:39 pm

Amazinz wrote:That way we don't have to argue semantics...

You're new here, right? Half the time, that's the whole point of our conversations! :-b

I keed, I keed. :-D O:-)
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