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heisman talk

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heisman favorite

Sam Bradford
4
40%
Colt McCoy
1
10%
Tim Tebow
5
50%
 
Total votes : 10

Re: heisman talk

Postby deerayfan072 » Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:16 am

Free Bagel wrote:
knapplc wrote:Dee - I don't care if Tebow's game translates to the Pros. I'm one of those guys who sees college ball and pro ball completely separately. I think Tebow really, really deserved the Heisman last year, and he is not only a great college football player, but he's a really great guy. And this is from someone who doesn't give a hill of beans for Florida or the SEC. But this year, I don't think he's earned it.

Honestly, Tebow's stats aren't that great. They're rather pedestrian, even considering that he's played some pretty tough teams. 2008 Tebow is a surprising second to 2007 Tebow, and it's not even close.

I really, honestly think that Bradford or McCoy deserves it more. I waffle between the two.

I'd like to see Superman stay another year in college so we can get that full sample size on his career before we make a final judgment on him. Is he a great player? Absolutely. Is he worthy of being only the second dual-Heisman winner ever? I don't know... and I'm very much leaning toward no.


He could have easily put up the same numbers as last year if Stoopsie were his coach. He's put up huge numbers against great opponents, and pedestrian numbers against total scrub opponents. Not hard to figure out, when they don't really need him this year, they protect him. They're not gonna let him run into a pile inside the 10 in a game against Hawaii where they're already up by 20 points with Hawaii having no chance of picking up a first down, much less getting back into the game. He STILL hasn't thrown an incomplete pass in the 4th quarter since the Ole Miss game, mainly because he barely ever even plays in the 4th quarter, as he's sitting on the sidelines watching while Bradford throws 35 yard bombs with a 30 point lead and 4 minutes left in the game (or even throwing a TD on 4th down with 3 minutes left in a 28 point game...true story).

That said, I still think Bradford deserves it this year. But let's not kid ourselves, Tebow's numbers aren't down because he's not playing as well, they're down because he plays on a team that actually has a defense this year and with a coaching staff that isn't going to risk the good of the team to try and get their player a heisman trophy.


To Bagels point:

Indeed, eight teams on OU's schedule rank 72nd or worse in the nation in total defense. But seven of those teams rank 49th or better in total offense, including four of the top 10.


Also, I didn't watch every OU game, was Bradford paying in the 4th quarter when they were up a lot? I know Tebow wasn't in the game in most 4th quarters and sometimes in the 3rd quarter.
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Re: heisman talk

Postby deerayfan072 » Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:43 am

moonhead wrote:
deerayfan072 wrote:take it for what its worth from a guy with a Tebow Av and Sig, but in my opinion:

if you want the guy with the best stats = Sam Bradford

if you want the heisman (best player in college football) = Tim Tebow

Against the number 1 team in the country and one of the best offenses, without his best wide out, he carried the entire team on his back. He has carried the entire team since that Ole Miss loss

he's playing on defense now? nice.



He does play defense 8-o

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:-b :-b :-b :-b :-b
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Re: heisman talk

Postby knapplc » Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:04 pm

The whole conversation about who played the toughest defenses is impossible to answer. We don't know if the Big XII offenses were so good or if the Big XII defenses were so bad. We'll get an idea in the MNC game, but if Florida has a bad game or Oklahoma has a bad game we're still somewhat in the dark.

It's safe to say that the Big XII's offenses are far ahead of their defenses. It's safe to say that the SEC's offenses are behind their defenses. But there are certainly exceptions, and I think Florida's offense is one and Oklahoma's defense is another. That's why we're going to have a pretty good game between the two. There'll be plenty of scoring, but both O's will earn their points.
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Re: heisman talk

Postby Metroid » Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:07 pm

That pic is great dee. :-b
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Re: heisman talk

Postby moonhead » Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:03 pm

only 3 invitations to new york this year.
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Re: heisman talk

Postby Free Bagel » Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:38 pm

knapplc wrote:The whole conversation about who played the toughest defenses is impossible to answer. We don't know if the Big XII offenses were so good or if the Big XII defenses were so bad. We'll get an idea in the MNC game, but if Florida has a bad game or Oklahoma has a bad game we're still somewhat in the dark.

It's safe to say that the Big XII's offenses are far ahead of their defenses. It's safe to say that the SEC's offenses are behind their defenses. But there are certainly exceptions, and I think Florida's offense is one and Oklahoma's defense is another. That's why we're going to have a pretty good game between the two. There'll be plenty of scoring, but both O's will earn their points.


True, but we do have a pretty good indication from the Big 12's out of conference play. As I've mentioned before, Eastern Washington threw up 24 on both TT and Colorado, and other games included 3 points against Montana, 19 against Montana State, and 26 against Northern Arizona. And neither of those games against Big 12 teams were garbage points, as they only scored 3 points combined in the 4th quarter of those games, and almost all 48 of them in the 1st half.

The Big 12 held out of conference BCS opponents to 30 or fewer points in only 7 of 15 games, and 4 of those were against some of the worst BCS teams out there (Arkansas, Washington State, and two against Washington). The SEC held out of conference BCS opponents to fewer than that number in 10 out of 14 games.
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Re: heisman talk

Postby deerayfan072 » Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:47 pm

moonhead wrote:only 3 invitations to new york this year.


not surprising. It is one of those 3 or no one else :-b
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Re: heisman talk

Postby Free Bagel » Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:10 pm

I'm surprised Harrell didn't even get an invite.
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Re: heisman talk

Postby deerayfan072 » Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:52 pm

Free Bagel wrote:I'm surprised Harrell didn't even get an invite.


Im not. If you check out that site I posted earlier it shows that Harrell has like 2 % or something like that. It is those 3 and no one else is close
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Re: heisman talk

Postby stomperrob » Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:21 pm

Geo-graphic evidence: Heisman voters clueless homers
Dec. 11, 2008
By Gregg Doyel
CBSSports.com National Columnist



The 2008 Heisman Trophy race should be the best one in the history of college football, but it will be ruined -- hell, it already has been ruined -- by the regional biases of homer voters.

Votes are in, and voters vote for what they see. It's as innocent, and as guilty, as that. And voters in the South have seen a full dosage of Tim Tebow of Florida. Voters in Middle America and westward have seen equal parts of Texas' Colt McCoy, Oklahoma's Sam Bradford and Texas Tech's Graham Harrell. So you watch -- that trio of Big 12 quarterbacks will divvy up all those votes west of the Mississippi.

When the results are announced Saturday, Tebow will have carried the South -- and that will carry him to the Heisman. This isn't a prediction. This is a lock.

Because I know human nature.

And human nature is weak...


....Which brings me to the Heisman voting. Over the years, it has been absolutely homer-ific. Pick a year -- any year -- and see for yourself. Click on the year to check out the regional breakdown. Or keep reading here, because I did it myself.

The results are ugly, unless you're Tim Tebow. Because if you're Tebow, they're beautiful. They suggest a second consecutive Heisman Trophy.

Not that another Heisman for Tebow wouldn't be deserved. Do not for a second get me wrong. Tebow has thrown 28 touchdown passes and just two interceptions, one of the most astounding ratios in football history, at any level. He also has run for 12 TDs, and he has done it against the toughest defensive gauntlet in the country. Maybe the Big 12 has better teams than the SEC, but nobody has better defenses -- and Tebow shredded them. If that's the criteria for giving him the Heisman, fine.

But that won't be the criteria. The criteria will be something much simpler. Heisman voters don't vote for the best player in the country -- but the best player in their region.

This is historical fact.

Last season, Tebow put up 32 passing TDs and 23 rushing TDs, historically crazy numbers, yet he didn't top the voting in each of the Heisman's six regions -- he finished second in the Southwest. To whom? Funny you should ask. Tebow finished second last year in the Southwest to Darren McFadden. He played for Arkansas.


con't...

rest of article: http://www.sportsline.com/columns/story/11165937
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