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heisman talk

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heisman favorite

Sam Bradford
4
40%
Colt McCoy
1
10%
Tim Tebow
5
50%
 
Total votes : 10

Re: heisman talk

Postby A Fleshner Fantasy » Sun Sep 14, 2008 4:31 pm

Metroid wrote:
A Fleshner Fantasy wrote:
deerayfan072 wrote:What gives him a leg up on Daniel in the end IMO, is that he does not have a Maclin to throw to


If Maclin's that good then maybe you should vote for him ;-D

edit: Here is, in all seriousness, why I think Maclin deserves it over Daniel.

Last game Maclin had 172 receiving yards and 3 TDs. Subtract what Maclin did from what Daniel did and Chase Daniel had 233 yards and 1 TD.

Against South Mizzou St., Daniel would have had about 200 yards and 2 TDs. Still good, but not Heisman good.

Against Illinois Maclin got hurt, so it's hard to say what he would have done.

Now I'm not saying these would have been Daniel's stats exactly without Maclin, because of course someone else would have been there and done at least a little bit, but my point is that Maclin is such a big part of their receiving and if you take him out, I think that Daniel is just another good college QB. Also, when Maclin is on the field, he is getting doubled, which leaves other receivers, who are also pretty good, in single coverage situations. Maclin makes the game way easier for the entire team and defenses are scared of him.

I could make the same argument that without Daniel Maclin wouldn't have the stats he does. In fact that makes more sense, how is he gonna get all those yards and TD's without Daniel throwing the ball? No Daniel is the Heisman hopeful on that team.:-?

Unless Maclin does something other than play WR to gain some attention and more numbers like returning kicks or punts there's no way he earns the Heisman nod for Mizzou.


You could make that argument, and it would be a pretty good one. IMO, Maclin is making Daniel look good rather than the other way around, but short of one of the two getting injured we really won't ever know. And as for him needing to do something other than just play WR, Larry Fitzgerald almost won the Heisman just as a WR and if someone can come that close, it's possible to win it.
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Re: heisman talk

Postby Metroid » Sun Sep 14, 2008 4:56 pm

A Fleshner Fantasy wrote:
Metroid wrote:
A Fleshner Fantasy wrote:
If Maclin's that good then maybe you should vote for him ;-D

edit: Here is, in all seriousness, why I think Maclin deserves it over Daniel.

Last game Maclin had 172 receiving yards and 3 TDs. Subtract what Maclin did from what Daniel did and Chase Daniel had 233 yards and 1 TD.

Against South Mizzou St., Daniel would have had about 200 yards and 2 TDs. Still good, but not Heisman good.

Against Illinois Maclin got hurt, so it's hard to say what he would have done.

Now I'm not saying these would have been Daniel's stats exactly without Maclin, because of course someone else would have been there and done at least a little bit, but my point is that Maclin is such a big part of their receiving and if you take him out, I think that Daniel is just another good college QB. Also, when Maclin is on the field, he is getting doubled, which leaves other receivers, who are also pretty good, in single coverage situations. Maclin makes the game way easier for the entire team and defenses are scared of him.

I could make the same argument that without Daniel Maclin wouldn't have the stats he does. In fact that makes more sense, how is he gonna get all those yards and TD's without Daniel throwing the ball? No Daniel is the Heisman hopeful on that team.:-?

Unless Maclin does something other than play WR to gain some attention and more numbers like returning kicks or punts there's no way he earns the Heisman nod for Mizzou.


You could make that argument, and it would be a pretty good one. IMO, Maclin is making Daniel look good rather than the other way around, but short of one of the two getting injured we really won't ever know. And as for him needing to do something other than just play WR, Larry Fitzgerald almost won the Heisman just as a WR and if someone can come that close, it's possible to win it.

Horseshoes and hand grenades man. And what position won the Heisman that year? The QB position. Besides for every 200 yard 2 TD game Maclin has Daniel has the same plus some. Not only that the voters will always go with the guy that runs the team over the guy simply running the routs. I'm sure Maclin makes things easy for Daniel, nearly every Heisman winning QB has had good help around them. If Daniel goes down and his backup steps in and can continues to get Maclin insane numbers then maybe he'll get invited to New York. But as long as Daniel stays healthy and keeps doing what he's doing he'll be the invite from Missouri. :-?
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Re: heisman talk

Postby knapplc » Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:15 am

Removing a WR's numbers from a QB's totals is a bizarre argument. I kind of see where you're heading, but that's not at all an argument I'd be comfortable putting forth.

It's way too early to be debating one player over another. Everyone is playing non-conference patsies right now - they're SUPPOSED to be putting up crazy numbers.

We're going to have a lot better idea here in the next three weeks when conference play gets into full swing. Then I'm going to begin making some noise for a few players.

I have my eye on (in no particular order) Tebow, Daniels, Bradford, Maclin, Crabtree, Wells (injury hurts, though).

Sam Bradford is crazy good. The booger eater needs to play well in Lincoln (he got beat and banged up last time here) and then I'll really be on his bandwagon. Tebow is having another impressive year. Crabtree is going to put up insane numbers all year long.

It's going to be a fun race. ;-D
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Re: heisman talk

Postby deerayfan072 » Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:32 am

knapplc wrote:Removing a WR's numbers from a QB's totals is a bizarre argument. I kind of see where you're heading, but that's not at all an argument I'd be comfortable putting forth.

It's way too early to be debating one player over another. Everyone is playing non-conference patsies right now - they're SUPPOSED to be putting up crazy numbers.

We're going to have a lot better idea here in the next three weeks when conference play gets into full swing. Then I'm going to begin making some noise for a few players.

I have my eye on (in no particular order) Tebow, Daniels, Bradford, Maclin, Crabtree, Wells (injury hurts, though).

Sam Bradford is crazy good. The booger eater needs to play well in Lincoln (he got beat and banged up last time here) and then I'll really be on his bandwagon. Tebow is having another impressive year. Crabtree is going to put up insane numbers all year long.

It's going to be a fun race. ;-D


Its funny that you say that because I actually think he is having a better year than he did last season. The numbers don't look as good, but I can tell you HE looks better to me. I think he is making reads better, his passes look to be more on target, and he is looking to run less. The numbers don't look that impressive, but I have been pleased with his progression as a QB. He has not thrown an INT in like 120 something attempts dating back to last season.
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Re: heisman talk

Postby Metroid » Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:37 am

BYU's Max Hall 91/117 1095 yards 12 TD's and 2 INT's through 3 games at this point should at least be mentioned.

I don't care who they've played those numbers are great.

Numbers for the other QB's at this point...
Sam Bradford - 64/81 882 yards 12 TD's 2 INT's 1 rushing TD
Chase Daniel - 65/90 973 yards 10 TD's 1 INT
Matt Stafford - 46/74 634 yards 4 TD's 0 INT's
Through 2 games...
Mark Sanchez - 43/63 510 yards 7 TD's 2 INT's
Tim Tebow - 30/49 393 yards 3 TD's 0 INT's
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Re: heisman talk

Postby knapplc » Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:51 am

Metroid wrote:BYU's Max Hall 91/117 1095 yards 12 TD's and 2 INT's through 3 games at this point should at least be mentioned.

I don't care who they've played those numbers are great.

Eh. Who they've played has something to do with it. Players put up crazy numbers against the Scout Team all the time.
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Re: heisman talk

Postby Metroid » Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:01 pm

knapplc wrote:
Metroid wrote:BYU's Max Hall 91/117 1095 yards 12 TD's and 2 INT's through 3 games at this point should at least be mentioned.

I don't care who they've played those numbers are great.

Eh. Who they've played has something to do with it. Players put up crazy numbers against the Scout Team all the time.


knapplc wrote:Everyone is playing non-conference patsies right now - they're SUPPOSED to be putting up crazy numbers.

So if everyone is playing patsies then Max Hall should be mentioned with everyone at this point, thats all I'm saying. If we're going to be talking about Heisman hopefuls right now he has to be mentioned. Will he be there in 6 weeks? Doubtful but I thought this was a thread to follow players not guess who'll win it....I might be mistaken. I'd rather talk about how players are measuring up from week to week than make a blind guess for the winner and watch the thread die. :-?
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Re: heisman talk

Postby knapplc » Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:15 pm

The only problem with that is that, with these crazy weak schedules that teams are playing, these players are going to put up crazy big numbers. The thread's not going to die if we limit it to a few players.

Here's what I'm talking about. Here are the leaders in stats through this week.

Passing
Passing Statistics
NAME CMP ATT YDS CMP% YDS/A TD INT SACKS RAT
1. Graham Harrell, Texas Tech 93 152 1251 61.2 8.2 8 3 1 143.74
2. Case Keenum, Houston 102 161 1141 63.4 7.1 13 1 4 148.29
3. Max Hall, BYU 91 117 1095 77.8 9.4 12 2 0 186.82
4. Todd Reesing, Kansas 103 141 1041 73.1 7.4 9 2 4 153.30
5. Rudy Carpenter, Arizona St 62 87 975 71.3 11.2 6 2 5 183.56
6. Chase Daniel, Missouri 65 90 973 72.2 10.8 10 1 1 197.48
7. Lyle Moevao, Oregon St 79 129 922 61.2 7.1 6 4 4 130.42
8. Nate Davis, Ball St 66 88 916 75.0 10.4 9 3 1 189.37
9. Arkelon Hall, Memphis 72 116 896 62.1 7.7 3 3 4 130.31
10. Sam Bradford, Oklahoma 64 81 882 79.0 10.9 12 2 0 214.43



Rushing
Rushing Statistics
NAME CAR YDS YPC LONG TD
1. Shun White, Navy 47 588 12.5 87 4
2. Donald Brown, UConn 79 566 7.2 63 8
3. Javon Ringer, Mich St 104 498 4.8 32 9
4. Kendall Hunter, Oklahoma St 56 449 8.0 58 6
5. Da'Rel Scott, Maryland 56 407 7.3 63 3
6. P.J. Hill, Wisconsin 70 379 5.4 46 4
7. Nic Grigsby, Arizona 57 376 6.6 55 6
8. MiQuale Lewis, Ball St 60 363 6.1 48 3
9. Shonn Greene, Iowa 55 359 6.5 35 3
10. Rodney Ferguson, New Mexico 62 352 5.7 45 4

Receiving
NAME REC YDS YPR LONG TD
1. Dante Love, Ball St 25 433 17.3 61 3
2. Dennis Pitta, BYU 26 408 15.7 46 3
3. Michael Crabtree, Texas Tech 24 395 16.5 82 5
4. Emmanuel Sanders, SMU 24 384 16.0 35 4
5. James Casey, Rice 29 376 13.0 47 1
6. Naaman Roosevelt, Buffalo 18 351 19.5 68 3
7. Darius Passmore, Marshall 17 334 19.6 88 3
8. Eric Decker, Minnesota 25 332 13.3 44 3
9. Dez Bryant, Oklahoma St 16 326 20.4 74 3
10. Mark Dell, Mich St 13 320 24.6 52 1


There are some crazy stats being put up right now by a LOT of players. Maybe five of these thirty are going to be legit contenders.
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Re: heisman talk

Postby knapplc » Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:22 pm

By the way - looking at those numbers (yes, it's against weak opponents) - Sam Bradford is looking awesome.

Here's hoping he has an "off" game when we visit Norman. I'd hate to be on the receiving end of yet another 50+ points. :-S
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Re: heisman talk

Postby deerayfan072 » Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:35 pm

knapplc wrote:By the way - looking at those numbers (yes, it's against weak opponents) - Sam Bradford is looking awesome.

Here's hoping he has an "off" game when we visit Norman. I'd hate to be on the receiving end of yet another 50+ points. :-S


There is something you can compare, Hall v. Bradford at UW

Max Hall -------- 30/41 338 Yards 3 TD 1 INT

Sam Bradford -- 18/21 304 5 TD 0 INT

Remember that OK got up early and Bradford stopped throwing and even came out of the game.
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