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heisman talk

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heisman favorite

Sam Bradford
4
40%
Colt McCoy
1
10%
Tim Tebow
5
50%
 
Total votes : 10

Re: heisman talk

Postby Metroid » Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:36 pm

First of all I'm only talking about QB's right now and that at this point Max Hall should be added to the list of them. You can remove Case Keenum, HOU from that list with 2 losses to OK St. and Air Force....uh yeah. Todd Reesing, KAN already has a loss on his record to South Florida. Rudy Carpenter's Sun Devils blew a game to....gulp UNLV. Lyle Moevao, OSU....come on really? Arkelon Hall of Memphis hasn't even won a game yet with losses to Miss, Rice, and Marshall! Chase Daniel and Sam Bradford are already on the list so we can remove them too. So of all the guys you mentioned only Nate Davis of Ball State could maybe make your argument.

Does having a loss on or 2 on your record eliminate you from Heisman contention? No but it really hurts. Another reason to mention Max Hall and not all those other schlubs is he's on a team ranked in the top 20!
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Re: heisman talk

Postby deerayfan072 » Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:40 pm

Metroid wrote:First of all I'm only talking about QB's right now and that at this point Max Hall should be added to the list of them. You can remove Case Keenum, HOU from that list with 2 losses to OK St. and Air Force....uh yeah. Todd Reesing, KAN already has a loss on his record to South Florida. Rudy Carpenter's Sun Devils blew a game to....gulp UNLV. Lyle Moevao, OSU....come on really? Arkelon Hall of Memphis hasn't even won a game yet with losses to Miss, Rice, and Marshall! Chase Daniel and Sam Bradford are already on the list so we can remove them too. So of all the guys you mentioned only Nate Davis of Ball State could maybe make your argument.

Does having a loss on or 2 on your record eliminate you from Heisman contention? No but it really hurts. Another reason to mention Max Hall and not all those other schlubs is he's on a team ranked in the top 20!


Nate Davis is good ;-D
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Re: heisman talk

Postby Metroid » Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:44 pm

deerayfan072 wrote:
knapplc wrote:By the way - looking at those numbers (yes, it's against weak opponents) - Sam Bradford is looking awesome.

Here's hoping he has an "off" game when we visit Norman. I'd hate to be on the receiving end of yet another 50+ points. :-S


There is something you can compare, Hall v. Bradford at UW

Max Hall -------- 30/41 338 Yards 3 TD 1 INT

Sam Bradford -- 18/21 304 5 TD 0 INT

Remember that OK got up early and Bradford stopped throwing and even came out of the game.


See I'm not really comparing anyone to anyone yet, it's way to early for that. All I'm saying is that AT THIS POINT he should be mentioned with the other QB's on the list. He's got the numbers, a winning record, and is playing on a top ranked team. All things give you a good foundation for a Heisman run. :-?

deerayfan072 wrote:Nate Davis is good ;-D

He is, add him to the list too. :-b
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Re: heisman talk

Postby knapplc » Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:47 pm

Metroid wrote:He's got the numbers, a winning record, and is playing on a top ranked team. All things give you a good foundation for a Heisman run.

Which is why the Heisman is bogus. It's not one player's fault if the team chokes a game, and those losses shouldn't eliminate anyone from contention.

:-t
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Re: heisman talk

Postby deerayfan072 » Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:47 pm

Metroid wrote:
deerayfan072 wrote:
knapplc wrote:By the way - looking at those numbers (yes, it's against weak opponents) - Sam Bradford is looking awesome.

Here's hoping he has an "off" game when we visit Norman. I'd hate to be on the receiving end of yet another 50+ points. :-S


There is something you can compare, Hall v. Bradford at UW

Max Hall -------- 30/41 338 Yards 3 TD 1 INT

Sam Bradford -- 18/21 304 5 TD 0 INT

Remember that OK got up early and Bradford stopped throwing and even came out of the game.


See I'm not really comparing anyone to anyone yet, it's way to early for that. All I'm saying is that AT THIS POINT he should be mentioned with the other QB's on the list. He's got the numbers, a winning record, and is playing on a top ranked team. All things give you a good foundation for a Heisman run. :-?

deerayfan072 wrote:Nate Davis is good ;-D

He is, add him to the list too. :-b


Not saying one way or the other on adding him. It just came to mind that we can finally compare someone to someone :-b

Nate Davis won't win the Heisman, but I stand by my statement that he may be the most NFL ready QB (and he is a JR), and he will make a solid NFL QB.
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Re: heisman talk

Postby Metroid » Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:57 pm

knapplc wrote:
Metroid wrote:He's got the numbers, a winning record, and is playing on a top ranked team. All things give you a good foundation for a Heisman run.

Which is why the Heisman is bogus. It's not one player's fault if the team chokes a game, and those losses shouldn't eliminate anyone from contention.

:-t

Well we're not arguing whether or not the the Heisman is bogus or not. :-b

You know that QB's need to meet the criteria listed above...why list those guys you did? :-?

Of everyone you listed(other than Daniel and Bradford)only Max Hall fills all the criteria needed to win the Heisman, whether it's bogus or not.

I do agree with you it is bogus though.
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Re: heisman talk

Postby deerayfan072 » Mon Sep 15, 2008 1:10 pm

Metroid wrote:
knapplc wrote:
Metroid wrote:He's got the numbers, a winning record, and is playing on a top ranked team. All things give you a good foundation for a Heisman run.

Which is why the Heisman is bogus. It's not one player's fault if the team chokes a game, and those losses shouldn't eliminate anyone from contention.

:-t

Well we're not arguing whether or not the the Heisman is bogus or not. :-b

You know that QB's need to meet the criteria listed above...why list those guys you did? :-?

Of everyone you listed(other than Daniel and Bradford)only Max Hall fills all the criteria needed to win the Heisman, whether it's bogus or not.

I do agree with you it is bogus though.


The Heisman trophy is what it is, a popularity conference of the QB or RB on a Top 5 team. It doesn't judge the best college football player. Part of the reason to not have Maclin in there is because Missouri, the school and fans, have already put there support behind Daniels. They have a website set up and are pushing Daniels, that is what you have to do to get the trophy. If you think this trophy goes to the best college player in the country each year I have a bridge to nowhere to sell you ;-) . Its fun to debate who it should be and we are all proud when our guy gets it, but it does not measure what it alleges to measure.
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Re: heisman talk

Postby knapplc » Mon Sep 15, 2008 1:21 pm

I listed all those guys because A) they're all top-ten in their respective categories, and B) because there's no way that all of those guys are going to be playing for teams without losses. Who's going to go undefeated this year? Maybe USC? Maybe Oklahoma? I could see an argument for BYU going undefeated if they hadn't barely beaten Washington, a team that Oklahoma simply dismantled. Anybody else?
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Re: heisman talk

Postby Metroid » Mon Sep 15, 2008 2:18 pm

knapplc wrote:I listed all those guys because A) they're all top-ten in their respective categories, and B) because there's no way that all of those guys are going to be playing for teams without losses. Who's going to go undefeated this year? Maybe USC? Maybe Oklahoma? I could see an argument for BYU going undefeated if they hadn't barely beaten Washington, a team that Oklahoma simply dismantled. Anybody else?

But see why do you keep doing that? How many times have I said AT THIS POINT!! I never pulled out a crystal ball and said Max Hall will win the Heisman. Why do you keep trying to read the future? There are a lot of guys on that poll list that won't be in the running after a few weeks, maybe we should just take them off now. BYU is undefeated and currently #14 in the AP poll, those 2 things plus Hall's awesome stats earn him to be mentioned....AT THIS POINT. Why are you so against discussing how players are performing right now and instead trying to cut them out for performances they haven't even had yet?
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Re: heisman talk

Postby knapplc » Mon Sep 15, 2008 2:27 pm

Well, I'm not "SO AGAINST" talking about any player, really. I'm just pointing out that very few players are really legit candidates. There's a difference between talking about players playing well or having good games and talking about who is or isn't a really legit Heisman contender.

I think you care about this conversation a LOT more than I do, so I'm going to bow out now. ;-)
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