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Ethics ?

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Ethics ?

Postby paperbags » Tue Nov 04, 2003 8:50 pm

One team has Cpepp and Bulger and their backups.
He traded Bulger to another team for Dillon.

Would anyone not approve this trade?
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Postby altproject » Tue Nov 04, 2003 8:52 pm

he's an idiot. but i wouldn't veto it because, well, we don't do vetos in our league. it all depends on what the trade policies are in Your league. If you need to prove collusion, we'll need more info than that. If bad trades can get vetoed for no reason other then they're lopsided, sure, veto it.
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Postby VHawk15 » Tue Nov 04, 2003 8:55 pm

The guy's definitely an idiot but as long as the two teams aren't cheating, my opinion is that the trade shouldn't be vetoed. If a guy is dumb enough to do that trade, then he should pay the price.
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Postby Bukoski77 » Tue Nov 04, 2003 9:20 pm

I agree with the earlier statements. You cant hold someones stupidity against them if they want to trade players away. For all we know he has a pretty dominate team with a 2-3rd RB as his only weekness and Dillon is the most antone in the league will give him.
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Postby greatgretzky » Tue Nov 04, 2003 9:33 pm

well I don't think so, what does his roster look like and how difficult are the other people in your league in regards to trading? sometimes when you end up with a tandem like that, you have to take less value like that in order to feel a need. sometimes I purposely try to get a tandem like that for the reason of trading them. I drafted bulger banking on warner going down and figuring I may have a nuclear bomb to use in a trade. I mean serisouly, you can get almost anything you want/need for a player like that, with a minimum of negotiation, to get somethign you need. I don't see how that can be a veto.

This ended up being the worst trade ever for me, but allow me to explain ...

On in late september I traded bulger for koren robinson. I had mcnabb and bledsoe on my roster and figured I was "deep". Basically everyone in the league figured they were "set" at qb except on team who at the time had a mildly stuglling farve and aaron brooks on the bench who was atrocious. I offered bulger for robinson to fill a disgusting flex spot and came away thinking I was the man. Well, obvisouly that was in retrospect, stupid.

But if I were in the position again, I would still take a gamble LIKe that, if not necessarily that one. I picked bulger thinking I may have some seriosu ammo to fill a need and at the time, both teams thought it was a good trade. Basically, needs and perceptions at the time govern trades, not just their absoloute valu in a vacuum. A player should always keep the right to vastly overpay for something they envision they need. Especialyl considering, you aren't privy to what they are considering as subsequent moves via trade or the wire as well.
this guy may be thinking that a fire may be lit under dillon's ass. They guy (maybe not necessarily int his case) may feel that his only problem with his roster si gettign a rb, not necessarily a great one, but one who can contribute. You don't know. So I think especially in football, unless kickers, crappy defesnes or so on are being traded for studs, you are best to not veto. Also if you go back to draft day, I bet you 99 percent of the poeple here would have drafted dillon instead of bulger.

I also traded randy moss for portis a couple of weeks ago. Moss' raw scoring probably will eclipse portis' and I am fine with that. But given what I had to play at my other rb spot and flex, the combo of my next best recivers and portis was more likely to score better than moss and my rb's. You have to let a manager make those types of holistic decisions, otherwise you are essentially managing hsi team for him, and that's no fun.

sorry for the rant, I jsut have very definite ideas ont he subject and had to express them.
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Postby Bukoski77 » Tue Nov 04, 2003 10:53 pm

greatgretzky wrote:
On in late september I traded bulger for koren robinson. I had mcnabb and bledsoe on my roster and figured I was "deep". Basically everyone in the league figured they were "set" at qb except on team who at the time had a mildly stuglling farve and aaron brooks on the bench who was atrocious. I offered bulger for robinson to fill a disgusting flex spot and came away thinking I was the man. Well, obvisouly that was in retrospect, stupid.

But if I were in the position again, I would still take a gamble LIKe that, if not necessarily that one. I picked bulger thinking I may have some seriosu ammo to fill a need and at the time, both teams thought it was a good trade. Basically, needs and perceptions at the time govern trades, not just their absoloute valu in a vacuum. A player should always keep the right to vastly overpay for something they envision they need. Especialyl considering, you aren't privy to what they are considering as subsequent moves via trade or the wire as well.




Amen!!! Great post man. I have posted about it in other posts before. I traded my Bulger for Darrell Jackson after week 1. He had McNair and Vick as his QB's. I had Garcia and Maddox. Everything you said above applies to my trade as well. At the time it was considered a great trade and drew no objections. Hindsight 20-20, oh friggin well.

BTW, at least I got Darrell and not K-Rob :-D
We both still came up well on the short end of the stick.
"At 60 yards it wont be a record FG distance, It will however set a record for longest post field goal celebration if Gramatica makes it."

Al Michaels, in reference to a Gramatica 60YRD field goal attempt week 5(2003 season) of Monday Night Football.
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Postby mtarail » Tue Nov 04, 2003 11:10 pm

There's nothing wrong with this trade and the guy isn't an adiot. He's just taking a risk that Dillon will get healthy and get out of Marvin Lewis' doghouse. If Dillon does, his past statistics speak for themselves. Bulger has had some great games, but he's as he proved against a horrible SF secondary last week, he's no Priest Holmes in terms of value.
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Postby ffgod » Tue Nov 04, 2003 11:31 pm

mtarail wrote:There's nothing wrong with this trade and the guy isn't an adiot. He's just taking a risk that Dillon will get healthy and get out of Marvin Lewis' doghouse. If Dillon does, his past statistics speak for themselves. Bulger has had some great games, but he's as he proved against a horrible SF secondary last week, he's no Priest Holmes in terms of value.


That's brilliant analysis. Let's get rid rid of a top 3 QB who "hasn't proven anything" and get in return a bottom-feeder RB headcase whose "past stats speak for themselves." I don't know why I didn't think of that!
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Postby paperbags » Tue Nov 04, 2003 11:37 pm

Thanks for the input......I will leave it alone, or I mean approve. Everyone has known everyone in the league for at least 5 years in fact some people have known each other their whole lives.
8-o
I was not concerned about cheating but more about fairness. But the team that gave up Bulger is 8-1 while the team that got him is 3-5.

BTW nice posts
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Postby greatgretzky » Tue Nov 04, 2003 11:48 pm

the game is not rotisserie baseball. In fantasy football, in essence each week the stats are wiped clean. I am sure there are more than a few who wish suan alexander's 5 td game was spread out among more than one game. Averages aren't totally helpful as someone could have great stast for a season, but if those major stats are divided among six games, it is helpful froma fantsy analysis, but not as helpful as some one who maybe scores more modestly, but more consistently. I don't consider this a great trade by any means But, it is a trade that is reasonable enough given ecveryone's love of the back and filling needs.

There has to be a team out there who is winning a lot of games with decent, if nto great backs, but great wr's. great qb and good defense. If you look at it, in terms of raw scoring, qb's and wr's ARE comprable. lets say some team said "screw backs" and had a ladder pick at the end of the draft. a team like that, quite reasonably could have bulger.mcnair, farve, culpper etc, torry holt and randy moss (provided he was a first round pick), a second tier back and third and fourth backs (provided they worked the wire ...) like anthony thomas and ddavis, shipp etc). that team would be very competitive right now, even though they didn't go for the gospel of taking backs early. do I advise that? No, certanly not. But for the past couple of years now, I have toyed with going with a team that ignored these edicts and seen what it could do. But, in the right league with things falling the right way, you could have a nasty team if say you took

holt and moss as your first two picks, bulger/farve (someone like that) as your third round pick, /a top tight end, then defense ... If you picked properly.

this is all balsphemy, but in reality, the point of the game is to score the most points, regardless of position. I don't advocate drafting that way. But,it is possible and sometimes in thsi game you may have to buck conventional wisdom and do what is best for the team. Otherwise, everyone would jsut submit their favorite draft source and that would be that. This season, I woudl much rather have holt or moss isntead of some of the backs drafted before them. And i would also have a stud qb over some of the backs that have failed to meet expectations. Vut in this case with someone who has basicall three stud backs, and a need, this trade has to be done. even if some of it is indeed specualtive.
In one of my leagues, three teams control, ahman green, priest holmes, jamal lewis, travis henry, tomlinson, portis, steven davis. eleven team league. and another has curtis martin, thomas, davis and faulk. There isn't a whole bunch of truly "stud" caliber backs left aside from williams and mcallister. And those teams have absoloutely nothing at rb. So trading for one of them is a nightmare, even if you are offering a holt or moss. I did trade horn ++ for portis and was supremely happy, even though I made one team possibly unbeatable. Sometimes you have to do what you gotta do. I'lkl take my chances if I make it there, you know. you gotta be in it to win it. Market conditions do indeed dictate some trades, and not always will you be able to extract the best deal. sometimes you gotta do the best you can and go from there.
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