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2009 NFL Draft Prospect Talk

Re: 2009 NFL Draft Prospect Talk

Postby deerayfan072 » Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:09 pm

Free Bagel wrote:
deerayfan072 wrote:I totally agree with the bolded part. I also agree about the spread part too. Just thinking like these NFL guys that listen to Mel Kiper and guys like that it seems rather than doing their own scouting and looking at it like this. One thing I always argue/talk with people about regarding Bradford is that OK offense. I hear people say Tebow can't be an NFL QB because for numerous reasons, but one big one is that he can't read a defense because of the offense he has been in. I have watched a couple OK games and it appears to me that Bradford doesn't read the defense either. He goes to the line, looks over for the call that the OC is making based on the defense and not what Bradford is actually seeing and adjusting to. If I am wrong about that someone let me know, but I watched the NC game, the OK/OKST game, OK/TT game, and the OK/Tex game and they ran that same offense. I am not saying Bradford isn't good, or Tebow is good, but why is it that no one questions Bradfords ability to read and recognize a defense when it appears he never has to read and recognize a defense? Obviously you read it after the snap, but really that is the same in all spreads, you have the first read and if its not there you go to the second. There is no real further progression than that in a spread.


When people talk about reading the defense I don't think any of them are talking about pre-snap reads. I'm not sure there is a QB out there in college that still has the authority to make his own adjustments pre-snap. At this point, most of the NFL QBs don't even have that authority anymore, everyone seems to be moving away from it.

When people talk about reading the defense they're talking about during the play, which to me it looks like Bradford has excelled at. He has very good vision from what I've seen, and I've never seen him not see an open receiver.

As far as how OU's offense works, I'm just guessing here but it looks to me like they have a play that they rush up to the line and Bradford can either snap it immediately or decide to wait, and get another play from the coaches. I'm not sure if that's how it works (or if they just tell him when to snap it quick and when not to), but if it is that's probably more control then just about any other NCAA QB out there.


Thanks for clearing that up bud ;-D
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Re: 2009 NFL Draft Prospect Talk

Postby ShoelessJoe » Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:37 am

BlueBandit24 wrote:Good points, and I agree that "raw" is a pretty vague term that is misplaced at times. When using it I'm referring more to his experience at the college level and the offense he played in. As I mentioned earlier, sophomore QB's who declare have not exactly set the world on fire, IIRC the most recent sophomore QB who came out and had a modicum of success was Michael Vick, and plenty of people felt he was not a big-time QB although to be fair he did win a lot of games. The spread offense is a concern as well, certainly one that can be remedied over time, but both Sanchez and Stafford have experience in pro-style offenses and I feel that makes them more pro-ready. In today's game a lot of NFL franchises will value guys who are ready to contribute right away as opposed to guys who need grooming.


There is a huge gap between college and pro ball and it isn't just the system or the type of defense that a QB plays in/against that determines whether or not they're going to make it in the NFL:

Joe Flacco played against crappy defenses.
Matt Ryan played against crappy defenses.
Matt Leinart played against crappy defenses.

JaMarcus Russell played against good defenses.
Brody Croyle played against good defenses.
Tom Brady played against good defenses.

There are many many many extraneous variables that determine the success of a QB, it's not as cut and dry as the type of system that a QB plays in or the type of competition a QB competes against weekly.
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Re: 2009 NFL Draft Prospect Talk

Postby The Lung » Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:44 am

Agreed with all of the above, with one additional caveat:

Generally, if a college quarterback does not excel and put up very good numbers against crappy defenses, the odds are stacked against him that he will do so at the professional level against NFL defenses.
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Re: 2009 NFL Draft Prospect Talk

Postby knapplc » Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:17 am

Free Bagel wrote:I'm not sure there is a QB out there in college that still has the authority to make his own adjustments pre-snap. At this point, most of the NFL QBs don't even have that authority anymore, everyone seems to be moving away from it.

Joe Ganz, Nebraska's QB, had that responsibility all year. Several games his reads were 100%. In a conference featuring McCoy, Bradford, Harrell, Freeman, Daniel and Robinson, Ganzy never got much press. But that doesn't mean he wasn't a heck of a quarterback, and darned smart.

He doesn't have the size for the NFL, but he'll give it a shot. Likely he'll be a grad asst in some program this time next year. But there are QBs out there smart enough and trusted enough to make those reads.
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Re: 2009 NFL Draft Prospect Talk

Postby knapplc » Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:28 pm

Marlon Lucky shining in the first half of the East/West Shrine game. A couple of big runs and a TD. Lots of praise for the Huskers from the announcers. After the past five-seven years, that's awfully nice to hear. :-]
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Re: 2009 NFL Draft Prospect Talk

Postby The Lung » Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:56 pm

Lucky will be drafted no higher than the third round due to character concerns - nobody really knows what happened after his sophomore season in which he was hospitalized after an incident at his apartment. But I think he could be a viable NFL back if given an opportunity on the right team. ;-D
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Re: 2009 NFL Draft Prospect Talk

Postby deerayfan072 » Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:10 pm

knapplc wrote:
Free Bagel wrote:I'm not sure there is a QB out there in college that still has the authority to make his own adjustments pre-snap. At this point, most of the NFL QBs don't even have that authority anymore, everyone seems to be moving away from it.

Joe Ganz, Nebraska's QB, had that responsibility all year. Several games his reads were 100%. In a conference featuring McCoy, Bradford, Harrell, Freeman, Daniel and Robinson, Ganzy never got much press. But that doesn't mean he wasn't a heck of a quarterback, and darned smart.

He doesn't have the size for the NFL, but he'll give it a shot. Likely he'll be a grad asst in some program this time next year. But there are QBs out there smart enough and trusted enough to make those reads.



I realy liked Ganz in college and I think people overlooked him because of Bradford, McCoy, Harell, Reesing all having success and the Cornhusker's lack of success. Ganz was better than Reesing and IMO Harell as well.
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Re: 2009 NFL Draft Prospect Talk

Postby knapplc » Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:02 am

The Lung wrote:Lucky will be drafted no higher than the third round due to character concerns - nobody really knows what happened after his sophomore season in which he was hospitalized after an incident at his apartment. But I think he could be a viable NFL back if given an opportunity on the right team. ;-D

I have never heard anyone question Marlon Lucky's character. The guy is a poster child for team play. He saw his role in the offense cut in half this year, and he never complained, not one time. Where have you heard anyone question his character?

I don't disagree that he probably won't go before the third round (and maybe later), but I've never heard his character questioned.

EDIT - that comes across as kind of harsh after a re-read, and I don't mean it to be. I'm just surprised because I haven't heard this about him. I agree with what you're saying, I'm just surprised about why.
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Re: 2009 NFL Draft Prospect Talk

Postby The Lung » Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:09 am

http://www.wowt.com/huskers/headlines/5760306.html
http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=1200&u_sid=2330187

Lucky was treated for an overdose, and although there were reports that it was not from drugs or alcohol, a lot of doubt remains. He will surely be asked about it during Combine interviews and Pro Days, that's for sure.
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Re: 2009 NFL Draft Prospect Talk

Postby knapplc » Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:44 pm

I'm well aware of that situation. That was two years ago, and he came back strong after that episode. Plus that "overdose" was speculation, and never confirmed by anyone. We can all probably put two and two together and realize that healthy young athletes shouldn't be found passed out in his house, but people pass out from booze more than drugs. Scuttlebutt here in Lincoln was that he had been out drinking the night before. Nobody has ever connected drug use with Marlon Lucky.

Fast-forward one very successful season and one mediocre season (in the wrong order for Lucky, unfortunately) and you have a guy who needed exactly what he got yesterday in his MVP performance at that game. Nobody was questioning his character or his off-the-field activity during this week, and frankly I'd be surprised to see it come up more than a passing comment in the draft.

Despite all that, I agree with you that he's not going to be a first- or second-rounder. He just didn't have an impressive enough season, and frankly he may never be the RB that warrants that kind of consideration. He's best catching passes out of the backfield, like a slower, less-talented Westbrook. There should be a spot for him somewhere, but we'll see.
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