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Re: WR rankings now

Postby JasonSeahorn » Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:21 am

ampant wrote:
Matt Schaub . . . . 9 tds and 9 picks in 11 games as a starter last year. ;-D ;-D ;-D Draft him early.


In the 4 games that Schaub played with Andre last year, Andre posted games of: 142/1, 120/2, 120/1, 37/0. In the games that Rosenfels played (and I don't think we consider Rosenfels a great quarterback): 116/1, 82/1, 86/1, 74/1, 74/0.

The moral of the story? Andre Johnson doesn't need a great quarterback. He doesn't need a good quarterback. He only needs a competent NFL quarterback and he will put up good stats. I'm not saying go get Schaub and expect him to be a top 5 QB or anything like that.
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Re: WR rankings now

Postby Azrael » Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:12 pm

To ampant:

I'm not quoting everything because it becomes too much work but not all my comments were actually geared toward your rankings.

To put TO No. 1 is arguable but I wouldn't call it concrete. I didn't say he couldn't be deserving of No. 1 but I wouldn't say he's a lock. Give the season another month and let's see where guys stand. Consistency has a little weighting for me but not much. TO is still in a great situation offensively so that's why he deserves consideration. Looking at what Denver is doing and who's on their schedule, I would not put it past Marshall to end up No. 1 by the end of the year. Detroit, despite their "commitment to the run" is going to have to throw it alot every game because they simply cannot stop anyone. And that means big #'s for Calvin.

My comment about AJ is not really in relation to his ranking but rather his QB. Schaub had his 1st starting gig last year. I do expect QB's to get better. I'm not sure what preseason you were looking at but Schaub has played pretty well this pre-season completing 69% of his passes and throwing good for yardage and TDs in his limited time. Additionally before he was injured for good his last 2 full games he threw for 250+ and 2 scores in each of his last 2 games. Regardless of your view on the QB, AJ still put up fantastic #'s with Schaub last year.

Again my comment on SSmith is just an observation in general.

My comment that includes Fitz is not really about Fitz at all but rather just an observation that there seems to be many more productive receivers today than say 5 years ago when it was Moss, TO, Harrison and then you were looking at drafting guys who might get you 1,100 and 8 as your next best WR. These days you go down to 10th and see a guy like Fitz who could go for 1,300 and 10.

I'm not going to make a list because list are for drafts really and at this point it's irrelevant. I like discussing lists but I really have no reason to make one up.
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Re: WR rankings now

Postby StudentOfTheGame » Thu Sep 18, 2008 1:40 pm

Andre Johnson will be in the top 5 by the end of the season. His size and speed combo makes him impossible to cover for any CB. I've seen him get about 5 steps behind the best in the business champ bailey.

This is the year he explodes. All this talk about Shaub holding him back is nonsense. Shaub is a decebt QB. He had a bad game against Pitt, but Johnson still managed 10 catches and over 100 yards recieving. Shaub is so much better than Carr. All you have to do is look at the impact Carr had on Steve Smith's numbers last year to see why Johnson's career numbers haven't been that impressive.

Another thing going for AJ is that Houston's defense stinks and that will lead to alot of shootout games in which Johnson recieves 10 plus targets. I'm expecting big things. 110 catches 1400 yards 10 TDs
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Re: WR rankings now

Postby ampant » Thu Sep 18, 2008 5:08 pm

Fair enough . . . and Azrael, your point about more higher scoring WRs is actually an observation I would agree with. As far as AJ goes, he's definitely an elite talent. You could probably move him up a few spots and i wouldn't have kittens over it. I just think that HOU is in a very tough division. I would also reiterate that he has never posted more than 8 TDs or 1150 yards in 5 years as a starter. He has averaged just 5 tds/year over his 5 year career. Which is why I felt compelled to move him down.

He certainly could do better, but it's by no means a lock.
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Re: WR rankings now

Postby StudentOfTheGame » Fri Sep 19, 2008 1:23 am

ampant wrote:Fair enough . . . and Azrael, your point about more higher scoring WRs is actually an observation I would agree with. As far as AJ goes, he's definitely an elite talent. You could probably move him up a few spots and i wouldn't have kittens over it. I just think that HOU is in a very tough division. I would also reiterate that he has never posted more than 8 TDs or 1150 yards in 5 years as a starter. He has averaged just 5 tds/year over his 5 year career. Which is why I felt compelled to move him down.

He certainly could do better, but it's by no means a lock.


If you project the numbers he put up last year over a full season you basically get TO like numbers. 106 catches/1500 yards/14 TDs....Like you said, by no means a lock, but you have to love that upside.
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Re: WR rankings now

Postby ampant » Tue Sep 23, 2008 12:18 am

And if we project the numbers he has put up so far this year, he ends up looking like Jabbar Gafney from last year.

I still think that Schaub has NEVER looked even like a competent QB, and he is in a very tough division. I am an AJ owner, and I sincerely hope he turns it around, but I don't think AJ breaks double digit TDs this year. Probably near the 1100/8 mark (making some optimistic assumptions)
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Re: WR rankings now

Postby JasonSeahorn » Tue Sep 23, 2008 8:41 am

To be fair, AJ did drop 2 touchdown passes so his numbers would have looked much better if he at least caught one. Per Rotoworld

Andre Johnson caught only two passes for 29 yards in the Texans' Week 3 loss to the Titans.
A.J. dropped a would-be TD pass in the back corner of the end zone on Houston's first possession and another possible 50+ yard score bounced off his chest ala Troy Williamson in the second quarter. Johnson was targeted five separate times in the end zone in the first half, but didn't execute once. He'll bounce back, but it was a very disappointing performance.
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Re: WR rankings now

Postby woodson_28 » Tue Sep 23, 2008 10:44 am

JasonSeahorn wrote:To be fair, AJ did drop 2 touchdown passes so his numbers would have looked much better if he at least caught one. Per Rotoworld


I'm hoping the owner of AJ in my league didn't see that AJ almost had 2 TD's. I'm throwing the bus at the owner right now trying to land AJ. Right now i offered: Larry Johnson, Roy Williams (DET) and B. Favre for AJ. Pretty good offer IMO. If the trade goes through then I'll be set.

I predict AJ has a 90 rec, 1300 yrds and 14 TD season. The guy is awesome.
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Re: WR rankings now

Postby codered7 » Tue Sep 23, 2008 2:45 pm

woodson_28 wrote:
JasonSeahorn wrote:To be fair, AJ did drop 2 touchdown passes so his numbers would have looked much better if he at least caught one. Per Rotoworld


I'm hoping the owner of AJ in my league didn't see that AJ almost had 2 TD's. I'm throwing the bus at the owner right now trying to land AJ. Right now i offered: Larry Johnson, Roy Williams (DET) and B. Favre for AJ. Pretty good offer IMO. If the trade goes through then I'll be set.

I predict AJ has a 90 rec, 1300 yrds and 14 TD season. The guy is awesome.


AJ is amazing...but look at his schedule, it's not too tasty.
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Re: WR rankings now

Postby Azrael » Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:40 pm

codered7 wrote:
woodson_28 wrote:
JasonSeahorn wrote:To be fair, AJ did drop 2 touchdown passes so his numbers would have looked much better if he at least caught one. Per Rotoworld


I'm hoping the owner of AJ in my league didn't see that AJ almost had 2 TD's. I'm throwing the bus at the owner right now trying to land AJ. Right now i offered: Larry Johnson, Roy Williams (DET) and B. Favre for AJ. Pretty good offer IMO. If the trade goes through then I'll be set.

I predict AJ has a 90 rec, 1300 yrds and 14 TD season. The guy is awesome.


AJ is amazing...but look at his schedule, it's not too tasty.


Johnson is one of few receivers who is matchup immune in my estimation, meaning I don't care what the schedule is like. The guy is a stud. I didn't know he drop 2 TD passes, which pisses me off. But I think he gets better. Playing 2 of the leagues toughest defenses doesn't help Schaub. But clearly we see that Johnson could have still been productive if he would have executed.

P.S. I think Marshall is the No. 1 WR in the league. You could say, well he hasn't played anyone yet. But then I'd say let me know when he runs into someone that scares you. Also, I didn't see the game, but read a report where he nearly had 2 more scores if not for him stepping out of bounds and a shoe string tackle.
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