IMO its Champ and its not even close. But I'm curious to hear other's opinions.
-Champ is better in run coverage, route reading, QB deception, play making ability, tackling. -Nhamdi had 8 int's 1 season, in which Champ had 10, and Champ added on 84 tackles. -Nhamdi wasn't thrown at all last year, 30 times, but he had no one on the other side, and keep in mind, its only 1 year. -That year, Champ still help WR's to under their per game average, had more picks, and had another 85 tackles. Not to mention the Broncos played more man coverage, because of Dre Bly, and it left Champ out there a few times. Not to mention there were a lot of mistakes in the secondary from safties.
Champ might be a little better right now, but Nnamdi will take over in the next year or two as top CB in the league. Champ is probably the better tackler, but I would rather have my CB be dedicated on defending the pass...Deion Sanders showed us that the best CB doesn't have to be a great run stopper if he can basically cancel out opposing wides.
Nnamdi not seeing many targets is a sign that he is a great CB. His INT totals reflect that. I'm sure the Oakland safeties make mistakes too, and I can't give positive word that the Raiders CBs play mostly man coverage, but I'd imagine with Nnamdi they play more man-to-man than the Broncos do, even with Dre Bly.
Asante Samuel is a gambler, that is how he racks up INTs, he is NOT the best CB in the league.
I don't have a copy of the Pro Football Prospectus but from this blurb I imagine they think pretty highly of Nnamdi.
Success Rate: The percentage of plays targeting a player in which the offense did not have a successful play. This includes incomplete passes, and completions which do not meet FO's standard for success: 45 percent of needed yards on first down, 60 percent in second down, and 100 percent on third or fourth down.
Situational stats are important, because they give us a better view of real effectiveness. In 2007, Sheppard's Success Rate was 36%, ranked 78th and one of the NFL's worst. But this tells us not only that Sheppard gave up yardage, but how.
There are aspects of defensive back play that remain uncharted, but their absence speaks volumes. In particular, the fact that the best DBs are often the least targeted. This was proven in 2007, when Oakland's Nnamdi Asomugha -- quite possibly the game's greatest at his position -- was thrown at so infrequently, we had to change the baseline for targets just to include him with the NFL's other 63 starting cornerbacks. If this sounds like Deion Sanders' ability to shut down half the field with his presence, it should.
Sheppard, on the other hand, was targeted 20 percent of the time -- higher than any other Eagles cornerback. The combination of Sheppard and William James was targeted 44 percent of the time, while Sheldon Brown's area on the other side was targeted 30 percent -- the highest discrepancy between left and right for any team other than Oakland. Must be that Asomugha guy again...
What about Cromartie? I like his athleticism although he's not really in the same league as Bailey or Nhamdi. Didn't he get burned pretty bad recently?
Anyways, I think Champ is past his prime and Nhamdi is probably the best and certainly the most underrated cornerback in the league.
Funny how the Raiders have the most underrated and the most overrated two CBs
JasonSeahorn wrote:Champ might be a little better right now, but Nnamdi will take over in the next year or two as top CB in the league. Champ is probably the better tackler, but I would rather have my CB be dedicated on defending the pass...Deion Sanders showed us that the best CB doesn't have to be a great run stopper if he can basically cancel out opposing wides.
Nnamdi not seeing many targets is a sign that he is a great CB. His INT totals reflect that. I'm sure the Oakland safeties make mistakes too, and I can't give positive word that the Raiders CBs play mostly man coverage, but I'd imagine with Nnamdi they play more man-to-man than the Broncos do, even with Dre Bly.
Asante Samuel is a gambler, that is how he racks up INTs, he is NOT the best CB in the league.
I don't have a copy of the Pro Football Prospectus but from this blurb I imagine they think pretty highly of Nnamdi.
Success Rate: The percentage of plays targeting a player in which the offense did not have a successful play. This includes incomplete passes, and completions which do not meet FO's standard for success: 45 percent of needed yards on first down, 60 percent in second down, and 100 percent on third or fourth down.
Situational stats are important, because they give us a better view of real effectiveness. In 2007, Sheppard's Success Rate was 36%, ranked 78th and one of the NFL's worst. But this tells us not only that Sheppard gave up yardage, but how.
There are aspects of defensive back play that remain uncharted, but their absence speaks volumes. In particular, the fact that the best DBs are often the least targeted. This was proven in 2007, when Oakland's Nnamdi Asomugha -- quite possibly the game's greatest at his position -- was thrown at so infrequently, we had to change the baseline for targets just to include him with the NFL's other 63 starting cornerbacks. If this sounds like Deion Sanders' ability to shut down half the field with his presence, it should.
Sheppard, on the other hand, was targeted 20 percent of the time -- higher than any other Eagles cornerback. The combination of Sheppard and William James was targeted 44 percent of the time, while Sheldon Brown's area on the other side was targeted 30 percent -- the highest discrepancy between left and right for any team other than Oakland. Must be that Asomugha guy again...
Good stuff. Asomugha is a better lockdown corner than Champ. With that said, Champ is still a very good CB. I don't think Asante Samuel or Cromartie are anywhere in the league of Asomugha and Champ..although Champs game is on the decline.
So Champ has one bad year and he being knocked down for it? What did Asomugah do before 2006? No INT's, FF, little tackling. Sure he was thrown at 30 times, but look at the team around him. Why would you attack their best player, when everyone around him sucks?
INTs FFs and tackles alone don't define a CB. Especially tackles, I don't see how that is a big deal for rating CBs. If you find stats for who they were tackling that would be helpful; I'm trying to find if they split up tackling WRs and RBs into separate categories but I haven't found it yet. I mean, if they are just tackling the RBs that the front line lets through, how does that define them as CBs? And this applies to both of them because the Denver and Oakland rush D both have been pretty bad in recent years. And I know you said with the addition of Bly that Denver has been playing more man-to-man, but I thought they still played a lot of zone defense in general...and that would help with Bailey's tackle numbers.
There is a point in not attacking the best CB, but even the good CBs still give up plays and the better wides would get open some of the time. If there's a huge disparity of which side of the field QBs look to against Oakland, you don't think that means something? It's not like Oakland's other DBs are on par with Jason David.
I'm not saying Bailey isn't bad. I think he is still a premier corner and right now I'd put him at the top. IMO Nnamdi is working his way to the best in the league and he is not far behind Bailey...Bailey has 4 years of experience on Nnamdi, but IMO Nnamdi will catch up. Nnamdi was not a great corner when he first arrived, like you said he wasn't a big factor before 2006. But that is why we call them "breakout years"...he is developing into that top corner. Nnamdi was a safety coming out of college, he apparently was wary of playing CB when the Raiders first asked him to do it, but he has made the transition and is now doing it very well.
Judging by your sig I doubt I'll be able to convince you either way though
Thanks to deluxe_247 for sig, he is welcome to sail with the Captain too! I will win all of the fantasy cafe games.....next year
Creating turnovers and scoring touchdowns is, and always will be, immensely more important than forcing the other team to throw to other receivers. For that reason, saying Cromartie -- who is actually a very good tackler, too -- isn't as good as Champ or Nnamdi isn't accurate representation of how great Antonio is. Champ peaked in 2005, and gets beat far too often now to be anywhere close to the conversation of best corner. If it were 4th down and a turnover was completely irrelevant at that point in the game, I agree in taking Nnamdi. However, Cromartie's big-play ability makes that small gap in man coverage between him and Nnamdi moot.
Cafe Home
Fantasy Baseball
Fantasy Basketball
Fantasy Hockey
by totalair32 » Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:04 am 
