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Someone settle the debate! Champ vs. Nhamdi

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Re: Someone settle the debate! Champ vs. Nhamdi

Postby totalair32 » Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:29 pm

Cromartie = tip

Sure there is some bias in my opinion, but there are still many facets of the game that Nhamdi hasn't mastered yet that Champ has. Champ baits QB's into throwing to his side. He reads QB's eyes, gets inside the route and makes plays on the ball.
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Re: Someone settle the debate! Champ vs. Nhamdi

Postby Kensat30 » Sat Sep 27, 2008 1:31 am

The only guy I've ever seen who REALLY made a difference at CB was Deion Sanders.

The only guy I see in the NFL who could approach that level is Cromartie, but he is not there and probably never will be.

Champ Bailey is a solid all around player who is good at everything but really excels at nothing.

Asomugha seems like the trendy pick for a lot of people. They call him a lock down corner. But honestly, you're not a lock down corner just because teams throw the ball the other way. That just means the guys across from you and behind you SUCK. That's the Raiders for you. From what I've seen of Asomugha he is really nothing special at all. Don't get me wrong, I don't think he is a bad player, just nothing special. He makes some plays here and there, but he is not a play maker. Guys throw away from him because there has been nothing across from him for the past few seasons.
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Re: Someone settle the debate! Champ vs. Nhamdi

Postby totalair32 » Sat Sep 27, 2008 9:50 am

Kensat30 wrote:The only guy I've ever seen who REALLY made a difference at CB was Deion Sanders.

The only guy I see in the NFL who could approach that level is Cromartie, but he is not there and probably never will be.

Champ Bailey is a solid all around player who is good at everything but really excels at nothing.

Asomugha seems like the trendy pick for a lot of people. They call him a lock down corner. But honestly, you're not a lock down corner just because teams throw the ball the other way. That just means the guys across from you and behind you SUCK. That's the Raiders for you. From what I've seen of Asomugha he is really nothing special at all. Don't get me wrong, I don't think he is a bad player, just nothing special. He makes some plays here and there, but he is not a play maker. Guys throw away from him because there has been nothing across from him for the past few seasons.


While I might disagree with your opinions on Cromartie and Champ, I think you are dead on with your evaluation on Asomugha.
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Re: Someone settle the debate! Champ vs. Nhamdi

Postby yankeekd25 » Fri Oct 24, 2008 8:01 am

Next year when the Packers sign Asomugha they will have the best secondary in football with Woodson, Asomughaaa, Nick Collins developing nicely, and Atari Bigby laying the hammer down.
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Re: Someone settle the debate! Champ vs. Nhamdi

Postby WeekSixteen » Fri Oct 24, 2008 8:55 am

What makes you think the Pack will sign him?
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Re: Someone settle the debate! Champ vs. Nhamdi

Postby LS2throwed » Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:26 pm

davidmarver wrote:Creating turnovers and scoring touchdowns is, and always will be, immensely more important than forcing the other team to throw to other receivers. For that reason, saying Cromartie -- who is actually a very good tackler, too -- isn't as good as Champ or Nnamdi isn't accurate representation of how great Antonio is. Champ peaked in 2005, and gets beat far too often now to be anywhere close to the conversation of best corner. If it were 4th down and a turnover was completely irrelevant at that point in the game, I agree in taking Nnamdi. However, Cromartie's big-play ability makes that small gap in man coverage between him and Nnamdi moot.



Sorry, but Cromartie's name deserves to be nowhere near Champ or Aso in a CB debate...Have you forgotten how bad Brandon Marshall beat Cromartie this year? Elite or shut down corners don't get beat that bad, ever, it's just one of those things where people like to use stats to show how good a corner is.


Cro is probably the most athletic corner, and he's physically gifted more so then the others, but he's alot like Deangelo Hall, boat loads of potential, makes the big play here and there, but he isn't going to shut down his side of the field or his man...Nobody even tries to throw to Aso's side of the field, at all...I'd take a corner that QB's are afraid to even challenge and throw to his side vs Cromartie who gets eaten alive but makes the sportscenter top 10 every few weeks...The sky is the limit for Cro, he could be the best corner in the NFL easily, but right now, he's way too inconsistent, and it's not a "small gap" with the man coverage between the two.


Can you or anyone remember the last time Aso was beaten repeatedly by a WR, even a great one? If Aso was thrown at nearly as much as Cro was he would make just as many plays, so thats something to not overlook, I don't have the stats in front of me but the numbers back up how few Aso is thrown at during the game.
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Re: Someone settle the debate! Champ vs. Nhamdi

Postby yankeekd25 » Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:56 pm

Jason X wrote:What makes you think the Pack will sign him?


Al Harris injury + getting old + Namdi and CWood are buddies + tons of cap money coming off the books + need for another number 1 corner + its about time Thompson signs someone big (the last being Woodson a few years ago) = ASOMUGHAHAHAHAH
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Re: Someone settle the debate! Champ vs. Nhamdi

Postby ckl81 » Fri Oct 24, 2008 1:10 pm

LS2throwed wrote:
davidmarver wrote:Creating turnovers and scoring touchdowns is, and always will be, immensely more important than forcing the other team to throw to other receivers. For that reason, saying Cromartie -- who is actually a very good tackler, too -- isn't as good as Champ or Nnamdi isn't accurate representation of how great Antonio is. Champ peaked in 2005, and gets beat far too often now to be anywhere close to the conversation of best corner. If it were 4th down and a turnover was completely irrelevant at that point in the game, I agree in taking Nnamdi. However, Cromartie's big-play ability makes that small gap in man coverage between him and Nnamdi moot.



Sorry, but Cromartie's name deserves to be nowhere near Champ or Aso in a CB debate...Have you forgotten how bad Brandon Marshall beat Cromartie this year? Elite or shut down corners don't get beat that bad, ever, it's just one of those things where people like to use stats to show how good a corner is.


Cro is probably the most athletic corner, and he's physically gifted more so then the others, but he's alot like Deangelo Hall, boat loads of potential, makes the big play here and there, but he isn't going to shut down his side of the field or his man...Nobody even tries to throw to Aso's side of the field, at all...I'd take a corner that QB's are afraid to even challenge and throw to his side vs Cromartie who gets eaten alive but makes the sportscenter top 10 every few weeks...The sky is the limit for Cro, he could be the best corner in the NFL easily, but right now, he's way too inconsistent, and it's not a "small gap" with the man coverage between the two.


Can you or anyone remember the last time Aso was beaten repeatedly by a WR, even a great one? If Aso was thrown at nearly as much as Cro was he would make just as many plays, so thats something to not overlook, I don't have the stats in front of me but the numbers back up how few Aso is thrown at during the game.


I'm somewhat of a Chargers homer, but I agree with this completely. Cromartie is probably easily the most athletic corner in the league today. When you have an amazing pass rush, there's probably no one else I would rather have, because any slightly errant pass could be picked off and taken to the house. But as you've seen this year in a few games (Broncos especially), Cromartie still has a ways to go in terms of coverage, and he's not the best tackler either.

On the other hand, Jammer has quietly become a very good cover corner. Even with Cromartie's celebrity and 10 picks last season, opposing QBs don't throw to Jammer's side, which is a testament to how good he is. He's also a phenomenal tackler. Like I said in another thread, he's definitely top 5.

I don't have any further insight on this topic other than to agree that Cromartie shouldn't be near this discussion, but Jammer has merits.
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Re: Someone settle the debate! Champ vs. Nhamdi

Postby accordc36 » Fri Oct 24, 2008 3:21 pm

Fred Thomas is the true shutdown corner. ;-D
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Re: Someone settle the debate! Champ vs. Nhamdi

Postby Popcynical » Mon Oct 27, 2008 2:05 am

I would squirt in my pants if we got Asomugha ... I'm hoping he hits FA.
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