masarume wrote:I don't understand the logic that people have who believe injuries aren't considered busts.
If I draft a player based on projections and he doesn't deliver them to me for whatever reasons, he's a bust. The reason could be pertaining to him (poor play) or other mitigating factors (coaching, injuries, craptastic line). It doesn't matter. I'm not putting the blame solely on this player, but if he doesn't live up to predraft expectations, he's a bust in my book. This season, it WOULD include guys like LT, Jax, Addai, and Brady.
But to call LT a bust and ignore the rest of the guys seems a bit illogical. Who cares about backups? When you draft a player, you're not automatically drafting his backup. If I draft AP, there's no rule that says Chestor Taylor is off the boards as well. Just because you drafted Brady, doesn't mean you had the #1 waiver spot to land Cassel.
My point? LT is a bust, but I can think of bigger ones this season.
On a offnote, I'm not giving up on him. I've had him 3 years in a row in my keeper league. I have two other top 10 backs on my team, but I'll still play the matchups with him. There are a lot of factors leading to LT's season and I'm still hoping he bounces back strong to close out 08.
In response to you, Masarume and to "Bungle613" who wholeheartedly agreed with you:
1. You really don't believe an injury is different from poor performance? If you met Tom Brady, could you really justify saying "Hey man, you really disappointed me this year?" If you believe you could, that truly amazes me, and tells me something about how FFB has clouded your judgment. On the other hand, I could easily see someone saying the same thing to LT. LT himself would say it. That's the true meaning of BUST. If I hire an employee who is great at doing his job, but he gets injured in an attack and can't work for a while, will I think to myself, "Wow, we were really dumb for hiring him?" I don't think so, whereas if we hire a lazy bum who just can't get the job done, we would question our screening/interviewing capabilities. So let's use logic here and separate TRUE BUSTS from Guys who got unlucky due to serious injury.
2. Re: backups, if you're a fantasy fb owner (I assume you are) how could you NOT understand how obvious my simple backup point is? If you had Westbrook who was ruled out for a couple of games, you at least had an opportunity to pick up Buckhalter--in fact, in my auction league, someone bid very high, ENSURING that they could insert Buckhalter in his lineup, and was rewarded handsomely for it. The example with Addai and Rhodes is almost as strong. Steve Slaton and Deangelo Williams (both of whom have outscored LT this year) were also available in my league early on (we only have 12 man rosters), so if LT was OUT, I would've probably grabbed one of them. That's how obvious it is that those truly injured players were not the big busts that LT was. His being LT, I'm sure most owners, like me, said "It's ok, he's LT, and he'll bounce back next week. So, no sense in panicking, and/or wasting $ and roster space on another RB."
To your first point, if I understand you correctly, you're looking at things from two different perspectives. I think you have a double standard for viewing player performances. For the purpose of being an NFL fan, I would never say to Brady, "you wrecked my season". The injury was not his fault. As a NFL fan, I enjoy the game of football, not it's statistical implications. On that note, you can't blame ONLY LT for having a bad season... it's Norv's play calling, it's their defense that's making them go pass happy before the 2nd half, it's the entire O-Line that's letting blitz plays get into the back field before LT can even secure the ball. As an NFL fan, I would not go up to LT and say "why are you wrecking my fantasy season". I don't think anybody would solely blame LT for his personal statistical struggles this year.
Now as a fantasy owner, things are different. As a fantasy owner, I'm only concerned about the numbers side of the game. As a fantasy owner, if I draft you at a certain point in the draft, I'm expecting a certain set of numbers to follow. If you don't deliver those numbers for WHATEVER reasons, you are going to be a bust TO ME. Calling you a bust doesn't mean it's your fault. It doesn't mean that you're a lazy player or that because of some personal flaw, you have let me down. It simply means, that based on both my analysis and those of other owners with regards to your situation, you have failed to meet our expectations. I can safely say to Brady and LT, " statistically, you guys were suppose to deliver a lot more than you have." I'm not saying they are horrible people. I don't believe a Bust is dependent on whether you can blame a player for anything.
You analogy of hiring is somewhat flawed. With most jobs, you getting assaulted would be something extraordinary. With fantasy football, the employee can fully be expected to be mauled down by 11 men when he's at work. If he can't perform his job (racking up a projected amount of fantasy numbers), he was an ill-advised hire. If you had a boss, and all he/she cared about was your ability to win fantasy football titles, I doubt they would care what the reasons were that caused you to lose. At that point, I doubt you'd still defend your underperforming players.
Now, I see where you're coming from when you bring back-ups in to the equation. Still I would disagree. Handcuffing is very important in fantasy football; I don't think any fantasy owners would argue that. If I am able to understand you, you're saying that if a player is injured, you can at least bench him and replace him with a competent starter, as opposed to rolling the dice with him on week-to-week basis. While I agree with you, that I would rather have LT be ruled completely out than playing at 60%, I would not factor this in determining whether he is a bust or not.
I see your points, but I don't think we'll ever agree. We have completely different philosophies when it comes to fantasy football.
The Lung wrote:Tomlinson finished with 91 yards and 1 TD -- that's 15.1 points in most leagues. But of course, because he was the first overall pick for many, if he doesn't run for 150+ yards and 2 TDs each week, he's a bust.
Sometimes I just shake my head in disbelief at what fantasy football has done to some people.
No genius, he isn't even a top 10 RB let alone an overall top 10 scorer.
As you said he was the number one pick or probably #3 at worst in almost every draft.
And yes, that is why he is a HUGE bust.
When you are in a 12 team or more league and you have a top 3 pick, that pick has to produce HUGE or else your season is toast
Seems like the definition of a bust is what is being debated. I was lucky enough to draft LT in one of my leauge in the 3 hole. AD, S Jax, LT. I will be the first to say that LT has been a major disappointment, but he is not what I would consider a bust. My team is 4th in the league and has scored the highest pts. LT has been a part of that success. I don't consider him a bust when I still plug him into the RB slot each week. Guys like Torri Holt who sat on my bench, Selvin Young who added nothing to my team, and an Anderson would be considered busts. They never came close to being start worthy as the season unfurled. Rule #1: Always start your studs. Rule #2: Always start your studs. Rule #3: Never play your busts. Since LT doesn't sit, he is no bust.
Interesting use of deductive logic.
So say I have this one WR I drafted in the first round at... say 8th overall. He was projected to go 1400 yards and 15 tds and yet he's pacing himself for a 900 yard 7 tds season. These are very startable numbers for a #3 WR in a standard 10 team league. You still wouldn't consider this pick to be a bust?
Since I am getting knocked out of the playoffs by Brian Westbrook I am going to vent some more about LT (who I was counting on to counter players like Westbrook).
I have changed my tune a bit: it is not all Norv's fault. Thursday night is on LT. That crybaby cashed in his start treatment and played whenever he felt like it. Whatever the Changers are out of the playoffs? Brian Westbrook is out there playing up a storm against one of the best defenses in the NFL with 1) a high ankle sprain 2) two ribs that were broken a month ago and 3) a pulled hamstring. The Eagles have about as little chance to go to the playoffs as the Chargers.
Some one start printing up some of those LT bumper stickers only change it from "#1 pick" to "#1 bust"
LTs lack of production did not help me to advance in the playoffs, so now he and I are officially cutting ties...FOREVER
No help all season long, and a minimal effort in a cake matchup that irritated me, left me wanting more and eventually cost me the game by ONE %&$* point
Pimps Main Prophet wrote: No genius, he isn't even a top 10 RB let alone an overall top 10 scorer.
As you said he was the number one pick or probably #3 at worst in almost every draft.
And yes, that is why he is a HUGE bust.
When you are in a 12 team or more league and you have a top 3 pick, that pick has to produce HUGE or else your season is toast
Seems like the definition of a bust is what is being debated. I was lucky enough to draft LT in one of my leauge in the 3 hole. AD, S Jax, LT. I will be the first to say that LT has been a major disappointment, but he is not what I would consider a bust. My team is 4th in the league and has scored the highest pts. LT has been a part of that success. I don't consider him a bust when I still plug him into the RB slot each week. Guys like Torri Holt who sat on my bench, Selvin Young who added nothing to my team, and an Anderson would be considered busts. They never came close to being start worthy as the season unfurled. Rule #1: Always start your studs. Rule #2: Always start your studs. Rule #3: Never play your busts. Since LT doesn't sit, he is no bust.
Well said Mooch.
Very well said, Mooch. But I would like to meet (be in a league with) the guy who drafted Steven Jackson 2nd Overall!!!!
moochman wrote: Seems like the definition of a bust is what is being debated. I was lucky enough to draft LT in one of my leauge in the 3 hole. AD, S Jax, LT. I will be the first to say that LT has been a major disappointment, but he is not what I would consider a bust. My team is 4th in the league and has scored the highest pts. LT has been a part of that success. I don't consider him a bust when I still plug him into the RB slot each week. Guys like Torri Holt who sat on my bench, Selvin Young who added nothing to my team, and an Anderson would be considered busts. They never came close to being start worthy as the season unfurled. Rule #1: Always start your studs. Rule #2: Always start your studs. Rule #3: Never play your busts. Since LT doesn't sit, he is no bust.
Well said Mooch.
Very well said, Mooch. But I would like to meet (be in a league with) the guy who drafted Steven Jackson 2nd Overall!!!!
S Jax was very sittable due to his uncertain injury status. He also got caught in the vortex of a disenigrating Martz O. In the Rams you have three players who could be called busts. Jackson who was benchable several game in which he played but was not yet healed, Bulger who never hit his stride, and the biggest Rams bust Holt, who pulled a Houdini and disappeared for most games. The combo of failed skill positions ruin all of their chances to pull out of the Missing Martz Vortex.
Interesting use of deductive logic.
So say I have this one WR I drafted in the first round at... say 8th overall. He was projected to go 1400 yards and 15 tds and yet he's pacing himself for a 900 yard 7 tds season. These are very startable numbers for a #3 WR in a standard 10 team league. You still wouldn't consider this pick to be a bust?
I don't think all players you start = non busts.
I disagree. Most FFB success comes from contributions on any (preferralby most) given week from most of your team. You draft a WR who underperforms is position but still contributes to your teams chance to win. That is not a bust. Just poor return on your pick. If you really felt he was a bust, some mid to late round pick would be your 3rd WR instead. Hey, just my opinion.
I think, therefore I am. I think fantasy, therefore I am unreal?
moochman
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by jake_twothousandfive » Sun Dec 14, 2008 3:19 pm
JimiRayThunderaxe wrote:I figure this thread deserved a bump today. Second time this season SD + LT can't run on one of the worst run defenses in the NFL.
Anyone still want to say LT isn't a total bust?
The TD he just scored saved his fantasy day.
I agree with Mooch, while he hasn't been dominant, he has still been good enough to help fantasy teams on a regular basis. LT still has a good shot to rush for over 1000 yards and score 10 TDs. I don't see how you can a player who does that a bust.
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