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Prime example of why the Rooney Rule is idiotic.

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Re: Prime example of why the Rooney Rule is idiotic.

Postby Free Bagel » Sun Oct 26, 2008 5:21 pm

So in this instance, the rule is holding back Haslett and the Rams, because of the race of Haslett.

How is THAT not racism?
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Re: Prime example of why the Rooney Rule is idiotic.

Postby stomperrob » Sun Oct 26, 2008 6:56 pm

Free Bagel wrote:So in this instance, the rule is holding back Haslett and the Rams, because of the race of Haslett.

How is THAT not racism?


Well it's not holding them back in the sense that affirmative action does - the league doesn't mandate that a certain % of minority candidates must be hired, only that at least 1 must be interviewed. So if it forces the Rams to open the procedure, only to rubber stamp Haslett, they haven't really suffered by the rule. Rams are free to hire whomever they want, the only restrictions are on the interview process. There are absolutely 0 restrictions on who can or must be hired, so I really don't see how this is a problem.
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Re: Prime example of why the Rooney Rule is idiotic.

Postby Free Bagel » Sun Oct 26, 2008 7:00 pm

stomperrob wrote:
Free Bagel wrote:So in this instance, the rule is holding back Haslett and the Rams, because of the race of Haslett.

How is THAT not racism?


Well it's not holding them back in the sense that affirmative action does - the league doesn't mandate that a certain % of minority candidates must be hired, only that at least 1 must be interviewed. So if it forces the Rams to open the procedure, only to rubber stamp Haslett, they haven't really suffered by the rule. Rams are free to hire whomever they want, the only restrictions are on the interview process. There are absolutely 0 restrictions on who can or must be hired, so I really don't see how this is a problem.


Just to be clear, if Haslett was black, or Mexican, or some minority, the Rams could do what they're trying to here without issue, right?

But he's white, so they can't.

So, this situation would be treated differently from one race to another. That's the definition of the word racism, last I checked.

Essentially, the Rooney rule tries to fix a couple people that may or may not be carrying out a process based on race by forcing EVERYONE to do it.
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Re: Prime example of why the Rooney Rule is idiotic.

Postby stomperrob » Sun Oct 26, 2008 7:12 pm

Free Bagel wrote:
stomperrob wrote:
Free Bagel wrote:So in this instance, the rule is holding back Haslett and the Rams, because of the race of Haslett.

How is THAT not racism?


Well it's not holding them back in the sense that affirmative action does - the league doesn't mandate that a certain % of minority candidates must be hired, only that at least 1 must be interviewed. So if it forces the Rams to open the procedure, only to rubber stamp Haslett, they haven't really suffered by the rule. Rams are free to hire whomever they want, the only restrictions are on the interview process. There are absolutely 0 restrictions on who can or must be hired, so I really don't see how this is a problem.


Just to be clear, if Haslett was black, or Mexican, or some minority, the Rams could do what they're trying to here without issue, right?

But he's white, so they can't.

So, this situation would be treated differently from one race to another. That's the definition of the word racism, last I checked.

Essentially, the Rooney rule tries to fix a couple people that may or may not be carrying out a process based on race by forcing EVERYONE to do it.


We'll have to agree to disagree. I define racism as the persecution of, or deprivation of rights based on race. Because there is no quota on hiring, neither Haslett or the Rams are deprived of any rights, the Rams are still free to hire Haslett after going through the proper motions, even if it is just for show.. I am dead set against affirmative action because of its inherrent racism, but this is completely different in that all is does is grant "foot in the door status", nothing more.
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Re: Prime example of why the Rooney Rule is idiotic.

Postby doublej73 » Sun Oct 26, 2008 8:59 pm

Are they going to create a "Rooney Rule" for players too? It seems that whites, hispanics and asians are very under-represented on NFL 53 man rosters. How about requiring that at least one white, hispanic and asian get the opportunity to try out for every one of the 22 starting positions, plus kicker and punter.

Sounds pretty silly doesn't it? Makes about as much sense as the Rooney Rule.

Not even going to bring up the NBA or NHL.
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Re: Prime example of why the Rooney Rule is idiotic.

Postby Dan Lambskin » Mon Oct 27, 2008 2:50 pm

what i dont like about is when it creates a token interview...lets say the Lions decide they want to hire Bill Cowher next year, chances are if they bring in a HOF coach like that. well, he's getting the job...but now you have to find a minority to come in for a token interview...that's a slap in the face to that guy
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Re: Prime example of why the Rooney Rule is idiotic.

Postby deerayfan072 » Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:00 pm

stomperrob wrote:We'll have to agree to disagree. I define racism as the persecution of, or deprivation of rights based on race. Because there is no quota on hiring, neither Haslett or the Rams are deprived of any rights, the Rams are still free to hire Haslett after going through the proper motions, even if it is just for show.. I am dead set against affirmative action because of its inherrent racism, but this is completely different in that all is does is grant "foot in the door status", nothing more.


You are depriving Haslet and the Rams of the right to freely enter into a contract when they want to.
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Re: Prime example of why the Rooney Rule is idiotic.

Postby aaawall91 » Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:02 pm

Dan Lambskin wrote:what i dont like about is when it creates a token interview...lets say the Lions decide they want to hire Bill Cowher next year, chances are if they bring in a HOF coach like that. well, he's getting the job...but now you have to find a minority to come in for a token interview...that's a slap in the face to that guy


While that is an extreme example. Not all "token interviews" may end up that. The Steele example was a perfect one with Grimm/Whisenhunt/Tomlin
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Re: Prime example of why the Rooney Rule is idiotic.

Postby stomperrob » Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:01 pm

deerayfan072 wrote:
stomperrob wrote:We'll have to agree to disagree. I define racism as the persecution of, or deprivation of rights based on race. Because there is no quota on hiring, neither Haslett or the Rams are deprived of any rights, the Rams are still free to hire Haslett after going through the proper motions, even if it is just for show.. I am dead set against affirmative action because of its inherrent racism, but this is completely different in that all is does is grant "foot in the door status", nothing more.


You are depriving Haslet and the Rams of the right to freely enter into a contract when they want to.


You may be depriving them of entering into a contract when they want to, but you are not depriving them of entering into a contract with Haslett - they are free to sign him, there is no quota or restrictions on who they hire! Mountains out of molehills!
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Re: Prime example of why the Rooney Rule is idiotic.

Postby dgan » Mon Oct 27, 2008 7:19 pm

doublej73 wrote:Are they going to create a "Rooney Rule" for players too? It seems that whites, hispanics and asians are very under-represented on NFL 53 man rosters. How about requiring that at least one white, hispanic and asian get the opportunity to try out for every one of the 22 starting positions, plus kicker and punter.

Sounds pretty silly doesn't it? Makes about as much sense as the Rooney Rule.

Not even going to bring up the NBA or NHL.


You cannot compare the two. Player evaluations take place on the field. Coach evaluations take place in the interview process. What you have to remember is that an "interview" doesn't just consist of a 15 minute meeting with the owner and GM. It allows you to give your resume, give references, and get your name some serious attention in the fraternity that matters. Even if the owner doesn't hire you, he may say something to another owner about how impressed he was.

Keep in mind this was to attack a specific problem - minority coaches not being given an adequate opportunity to get their resume out there. The day Haslett and white coaches have that issue, they'll abolish the Rooney rule or alter it to be inclusive of all race. Specific problem = specific solution. They are not trying to make it "fair"...they are trying to make it less unfair.
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