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Crazy Tiebreaker Situations

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Crazy Tiebreaker Situations

Postby goalyboy13 » Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:48 pm

I am in a 12 team league, 3 divisions of 4. You play each team in division twice, and play 7 of the other 8 teams. The winner of the division makes the playoffs and the three next best records qualify.
We still have a few weeks left and one game could change the possibility of this happening, but there is a chance that is not totally impossible that my league could have:
1 team at 9-4
9 teams at 7-6
1 team at 4-9
1 team at 2-11

I haven't checked head to head, but it would be nearly impossible to determine with teams playing each other odd numbers of times or not playing at all.
My ideal tiebreaker would be that the 9-4 team gets a bye into the semis (week 15 for us). The other 9 teams put out their best starting lineup in Week 14, the three highest scores make the playoffs as the 2-4 seeds. Essentially this is the same as having a giant one week head to head competition between all of them. The two jokers at the bottom of the table can play eachother in the first week of playoffs.
If there is a three-way tie for first in two of the divisions and a three-way tie for second in the other, it just seems like a fair way to do things.

What would you guys do? And do you have any good tiebreaker stories?
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Re: Crazy Tiebreaker Situations

Postby WaCougMBS » Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:11 am

In both of my leagues, the tie-breaker for playoff rankings goes like this: If there is a 2-team tie for a position, the higher ranking goes to the team with the better head to head record - if they are tied or did not play, the team with the highest amount of points to date in the season gets the nod. If there is a multiple-team tie for a position, then it goes strictly on total points for the season. This is really the only truly fair tiebreaker and rewards teams that consistently score higher amounts of points, especially if they took a couple more tough/unlucky losses than the other guys they are tied with.

This is just one way to do it, and its the only one I know, but I have found it to be very fair and effective. It has come into play in both leagues almost every year for the last 4 seasons with absolutely no complaints...

Hope this helps ;-D
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Re: Crazy Tiebreaker Situations

Postby Matthias » Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:12 am

The best tiebreaker is points scored. That is, after all, what you're trying to do in fantasy football. Head to head records sound nice but really, it doesn't mean anything. It's not like the two teams are actually playing each other; the totals are just getting added up side by side. And the fact that your number was smaller on the week that you happened to play Team B doesn't really have anything to do with them.
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Re: Crazy Tiebreaker Situations

Postby spodog » Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:14 pm

goalyboy13 wrote:I am in a 12 team league, 3 divisions of 4. You play each team in division twice, and play 7 of the other 8 teams. The winner of the division makes the playoffs and the three next best records qualify.


Why take 6 teams to the playoffs in a 12 team league? You really should be taking only 4.

If you must take six, a tie breaker system that somewhat emulates the NFL is:

- 3 Division Winners

- 3 Wildcards from any of the Divisions, based upon:

1. Overall Record
2. Head to Head Record amongst those tied
3. Total Points Scored
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Re: Crazy Tiebreaker Situations

Postby goalyboy13 » Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:32 pm

I made the same argument, that way you play everyone at least once. But they were not for that. So they decided on 6. The way it is in all likelihood. The division winners will all make it. And the final three spots are all going to teams from my division.
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Re: Crazy Tiebreaker Situations

Postby dupree » Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:48 pm

This is a tough one to fight with mid-season...lots of dissent as someone will feel cheated (I know form experience see below) do your best this season and CLEARLY DOCUMENT EVERYTHING for next year.

No matter how simple or complex the tie-break system the MOST IMPORTANT aspects BY FAR are clear documentation and consistency in the their application.

We currently have a situation where the entire "SOUTH" division is knotted at 6-4 with only one other non-divisional winning team having a +.500 record.

This season I have been posting the "current Playoff" picture on our league home page with details of how ties were broken as a working example of what is going to happen when the playoffs come around. This gives any team the ability to check our stated rules and my application of them so as to raise any questions BEFORE it becomes a Playoff vs Toilet bowl issue. If someone raises an issue in the 11th hour I will have no sympathy for them.


We take 6 teams to the playoffs all teams felt that having 6 teams in the playoffs is more enjoyable to all involved.

We take playoff spots like so:
1-3 Divisional winners
4-5 Best remaining record out of remaining 9 teams
6 Highest scoring team of the remaining 7

Chances are the entire SOUTH division will go to the playoffs.

Regarding tie breakers we had a HUGE dust-up last year due to not having any formal tie breaking methods documented and ended up with a 3 way tie for the last 2 playoff spots.

Teams A B and C were all tied in terms of Record. Based on Scoring Team A took the 5th playoff spot (there was no clear winner in H2H between the clubs, they were all 1-1 against the other 2). Between Teams B and C; Team B beat C H2H but team C had the higher point total....well in a 2 club tie break the H2H winner gets it (Team B)...team C, of course, threw a fit....hence the 3 pages of tie break rules you see below.

I thought the fact that you started anew for each playoff spot was pretty much universally accepted as the right way to do things so it wasn't clearly documented...I still think team C acted like a spoiled brat but in the end it was up to the commish (i.e. me) to spell everything out ahead of time.

So NOW we have an overly documented and complete set of tie breakers (culled from intensive league rules googling in the off-season) that goes like so:


If two teams have the same score in a playoff or regular season game, the winner will be determined by the first of the following rules which is not also a tie:

[note we use fractional points so it is doubtful that this is ever used but again, better to have everything spelled out ahead of time and not need it than vice versa]

1. Total # of TD scored by Starters
2. Total Starting Kicker Points
3. Total Starting Def/ST Points
4. Total Starting TE Points
5. Total Starting QB Points
6. Home Team / Highest Playoff seed.


TO BREAK A TIE WITHIN A DIVISION
If, at the end of the regular season, two or more clubs in the same division finish with identical won-lost-tied percentages, the following steps will be taken until a champion is determined.

(In ALL cases Win % is calculated as Accumulated Points/Total Available Points taken to 3 significant digits rounded up at >=.0005 and down <.0005, win=1pt; tie=0.5pt; loss=0pt)

Two Clubs
1. Head-to-head (best won-lost-tied percentage in games between the clubs).
2. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the division.
3. Most points in all games.
4. Most points Against in all games (toughness of schedule).
5. Virtual Coin Flip.[*]

Three or More Clubs
(Note: If two clubs remain tied after third or other clubs are eliminated, tie breaker reverts to step 1 of applicable two-club format.)

1. Head-to-head (best won-lost-tied percentage in games among the clubs).
2. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the division.
3. Most points in all games.
4. Most points against in all games (toughness of schedule).
5. Virtual Random Drawing of a name from the hat.[*]


TO BREAK A TIE FOR A WILD CARD SPOT
If it is necessary to break ties to determine the two Wild-Card clubs, the following steps will be taken.
1. If the tied clubs are from the same division, apply division tie breaker.
2. If the tied clubs are from different divisions, apply the following steps.

Two Clubs
1. Head-to-head.
2. Most points in all games.
3. Most Points against in all games (toughness of schedule)
4. Virtual Coin Flip[*]

Three or More Clubs
(Note: If two clubs remain tied after third or other clubs are eliminated, tie breaker reverts to step 1 of applicable two-club format.)
1. Head-to-head sweep. (Applicable only if one club has won 100% of games against each of the others or if one club has lost 100% of games against each of the others.)
2. Most points in all games.
3. Most points against in all games (toughness of schedule)
4. Virtual Random Drawing of a name from the hat.[*]

When the first Wild-Card team has been identified, the procedure is repeated to name the second Wild-Card.

TIE BREAK FOR AT LARGE PLAYOFF SPOT
Should it be neccassary to break a tie between 2 or more teams for the at large playoff spot the following rules will be used:

Two Clubs
1. Most points against in all games (toughness of schedule)
2. H2H winning percentage if applicable
3. Overall Winning %
4. Virtual Coin Flip[*]

Three or more clubs
(Note: If two clubs remain tied after third or other clubs are eliminated, tie breaker reverts to step 1 of applicable two-club format.)
1. Most points against in all games (toughness of schedule)
2. Head-to-head sweep. (Applicable only if one club has won 100% of games against each of the others or if one club has lost 100% of games against each of the others.)
3. Overall Winning %
4. Virtual Random Drawing of a name from the hat.[*]

OTHER TIE-BREAKING PROCEDURES
1. Only one club advances to the playoffs in any tie-breaking step.
Remaining tied clubs revert to the first step of the applicable division or Wild-Card tie breakers. As an example, if two clubs remain tied in any tie-breaker step after all other clubs have been eliminated, the procedure reverts to step one of the two-club format to determine the winner. When one club wins the tie breaker, all other clubs revert to step 1 of the applicable two-club or three-club format.

2. To determine home-field priority among division titlists, apply Wild-Card tie breakers.

3. To determine home-field priority for Wild-Card qualifiers, apply division tie breakers (if teams are from the same division) or Wild-Card tie breakers (if teams are from different divisions).

4. Tiebreakers for playoff seeding follow the steps under TO BREAK A TIE FOR THE WILD-CARD TEAM.


[*] = The "Virtual Coin Flip" or "Virtual Drawing from a hat" will be implemented via the ProFantasySports Randomizer (or similar tool if PFS randomizer is unavailable). The team name and email of those involved will be entered into the system and whomever gets the "#1" position in the first round is the "winner".
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Re: Crazy Tiebreaker Situations

Postby The Lung » Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:39 pm

spodog wrote:Why take 6 teams to the playoffs in a 12 team league? You really should be taking only 4.


Please make a case why there should only be four teams making the playoffs and not six in a 12-team league.
(~);}

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Re: Crazy Tiebreaker Situations

Postby spodog » Thu Nov 13, 2008 7:10 pm

The Lung wrote:
spodog wrote:Why take 6 teams to the playoffs in a 12 team league? You really should be taking only 4.


Please make a case why there should only be four teams making the playoffs and not six in a 12-team league.


1. Assuming an objective of a well structured fantasy league is to model after the NFL when possible
. 1a. NFL allows 37.5% of it's teams to go to the playoffs
. 1b. 4 of 12 in a fantasy league is 33.3%, which is pretty close
. 1c. allowing 6 of 12 is a full 50%, a long ways off from what the NFL does

2. Allowing 50% of the league teams to go into the playoffs dramatically increases the chances that an owner who was mediocre all year long gets lucky in the last few weeks of the season, and knocks out an owner who maanaged their team to a much higher level of success throughout the season

3. 50% of the teams going to the playoffs opens the door for teams below .500 to get into the playoffs from time to time. Playoff systems that reward .500 or below teams with post season play are not desirable (IMO)

4. Personal preference
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Re: Crazy Tiebreaker Situations

Postby Matthias » Thu Nov 13, 2008 8:47 pm

spodog wrote:2. Allowing 50% of the league teams to go into the playoffs dramatically increases the chances that an owner who was mediocre all year long gets lucky in the last few weeks of the season, and knocks out an owner who maanaged their team to a much higher level of success throughout the season

I agree with all of spodog's reasons, but the primary one is the one above. A lot of the "skill" in fantasy football is staying on top of the waiver wire and picking up the guys who are due for a good week, either because the guy ahead of them is injured or because they're facing a really weak defense. The more teams you let into the playoffs, the more you dilute that effort and the more random chance you introduce into the system. I don't think I've ever seen any fantasy football team go undefeated; even the perfect lineup will have those days where it just so shakes out that your guys all happen to have a bad day on the same day. And sure, that's part of the game, but it shouldn't be what determines the game.

Or put really simply: what would you rather reward? Fourteen weeks of vigilance or three weeks of luck?
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