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"League Points" Scoring System?

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"League Points" Scoring System?

Postby FFisLife » Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:40 pm

I'm looking for a FF software application that minimizes the luck factor in FF as much as possible and rewards the consistently high scoring teams. To find the best software application available I figured I would ask those in the FF community for help. I've stumbled upon one feature in particular that I believe will help minimize the luck factor for my league. It's called the "League Points" scoring system (please see description below). I would be grateful if anyone could point me in the direction of FF providers that offer this feature. I would also be grateful to anyone who has any suggestions of other features (whether or not they think they exist) that would help minimize the luck factor in FF.

Please don't turn this thread into a debate of whether you are for or against luck in FF. I already started another thread like that which you can discuss here: http://www.fantasyfootballcafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=427264&start=20 Let's keep this thread about features that can help minimize luck in FF.

Below is the questionably accurate description of the "League Points" scoring system in FF. I'll try to explain it real quick from my understanding of how it works (someone with experience please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong):

We'll use a 12 team league as an example, with the top 6 teams making the playoffs...

Teams play h2h each week. Each team that wins their h2h matchup gets 1 league point. The top 3 teams in scoring each week (win or lose) get 3 league points, the 4th thru 6th highest scoring teams each week get 2 league points, the 7th thru 9th highest scoring teams of the week get 1 league point, and the bottom 3 scoring teams of the week get no league points. The 6 teams with the highest league points at the end of the regular season go to the playoffs.

I'm still not clear on tiebreakers but I would assume it might work like this: If two teams were tied with the same amount of league points at the end of the regular season then the tie breaker would revert back to who won the head to h2h matchups between the two teams and if those were split then it would probably go to the team that scored the most points overall in those h2h matchups between the two teams.

As far as the playoffs go I believe it is just a standard h2h playoff system (although I think a better solution could be found for this too).

This summary of a "League Points" system may not be completely accurate as I have pieced together how this works from several different sources and also I have filled in some of the missing pieces with my own assumptions. I would really appreciate it if someone who actually plays in this kind of league could step in and clarify things for all of us though.

To recap...Please point me in the direction of a provider that offers this feature and feel free to suggest other features that you feel help minimize luck in FF.

I appreciate anyone that can help! - Thanks!! ;-D
QB ---- Rodgers
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W/T -- T.O., Wayne, Fitzgerald, Marshall
K ------ Elam
Def ----Tenn

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Re: "League Points" Scoring System?

Postby Dan Lambskin » Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:19 am

myfantasyleague.com offers this

our 12 team Dynasty league uses it, but we use a Win = 2 points, Top 4 score = 2, 5-8 = 1, 9-12=0
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Re: "League Points" Scoring System?

Postby The Lung » Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:13 am

The base concept of what you are describing is the Victory Points system used at Antsports and Myfantasyleague.com league hosts.

A full description can be found here: Head-to-Head Victory Point Scoring System(TM) system

One issue that I see is that the Victory Points system awards 2 points for a win and 2 points for the highest score, while your system awards 1 point per win and 3 points per highest score. In my opinion, this de-values the head-to-head victory too much. I think your system would basically turn the league into a total points league, and you'd all but remove the trash talking and the "fun" of the head-to-head victory each week.

So while your concept is sound, I just disagree with the point assignment. While it's still important to reward the manager who puts up 140 points (which would have beaten every other team in the league that week except for the team he faced who scored 141 points) I still think the head-to-head victory should be on equal footing. ;-D
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Re: "League Points" Scoring System?

Postby stomperrob » Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:57 am

I'm still not clear on tiebreakers but I would assume it might work like this: If two teams were tied with the same amount of league points at the end of the regular season then the tie breaker would revert back to who won the head to h2h matchups between the two teams and if those were split then it would probably go to the team that scored the most points overall in those h2h matchups between the two teams.


Using fractional points usually avoids the problems of ties on a weekly basis and at the end of the season.
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Re: "League Points" Scoring System?

Postby FFisLife » Wed Nov 19, 2008 3:16 pm

stomperrob wrote:
I'm still not clear on tiebreakers but I would assume it might work like this: If two teams were tied with the same amount of league points at the end of the regular season then the tie breaker would revert back to who won the head to h2h matchups between the two teams and if those were split then it would probably go to the team that scored the most points overall in those h2h matchups between the two teams.


Using fractional points usually avoids the problems of ties on a weekly basis and at the end of the season.


Thanks for your input! Even with fractional points the possibility of a tie (though small) does still exist so I'm wondering what is the tiebreaker after points?

Dan Lambskin wrote:myfantasyleague.com offers this

our 12 team Dynasty league uses it, but we use a Win = 2 points, Top 4 score = 2, 5-8 = 1, 9-12=0


The Lung wrote:The base concept of what you are describing is the Victory Points system used at Antsports and Myfantasyleague.com league hosts.

A full description can be found here: Head-to-Head Victory Point Scoring System(TM) system

One issue that I see is that the Victory Points system awards 2 points for a win and 2 points for the highest score, while your system awards 1 point per win and 3 points per highest score. In my opinion, this de-values the head-to-head victory too much. I think your system would basically turn the league into a total points league, and you'd all but remove the trash talking and the "fun" of the head-to-head victory each week.

So while your concept is sound, I just disagree with the point assignment. While it's still important to reward the manager who puts up 140 points (which would have beaten every other team in the league that week except for the team he faced who scored 141 points) I still think the head-to-head victory should be on equal footing. ;-D


Thanks guys for your help! As far as the numbers I used in my example of the "League Points" scoring system, they were just an educated guess on the number of points awarded, they were not exact. I wasn't sure how many points were awarded so I made them up to demonstrate my example. Thank you for giving me the real numbers.

How do you guys like using the "Victory Points" scoring system and do you feel that it helps minimize the luck factor at all?

Also how do the playoffs work? :-S
QB ---- Rodgers
RB ---- SJAX, Jones-Drew
W/T -- T.O., Wayne, Fitzgerald, Marshall
K ------ Elam
Def ----Tenn

8 Team PPR League
Starters: 1 QB, 2 RB, 4 W/T, 1 K, 1 DEF
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Re: "League Points" Scoring System?

Postby dream_017 » Wed Nov 19, 2008 3:57 pm

FFisLife wrote:Also how do the playoffs work? :-S

Exactly, that is a very good question. Say you have 4 teams make the playoffs and the games turn out like this:
Game 1:
Team#1 - 115.6
Team#4 - 113.2

Game 2:
Team#2 - 65.4
Team#3 - 45.3

Who moves on?

This is my beef with this little experiment. I bet you guys want it both ways, you want the points system to get into the playoffs, but H2H to determine a champion, or maybe some kind of 3 week playoff where every team plays each other and the one with the most "League points" win the championship

:-t
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Re: "League Points" Scoring System?

Postby The Lung » Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:16 pm

dream_017 wrote:
FFisLife wrote:Also how do the playoffs work? :-S

Exactly, that is a very good question. Say you have 4 teams make the playoffs and the games turn out like this:
Game 1:
Team#1 - 115.6
Team#4 - 113.2

Game 2:
Team#2 - 65.4
Team#3 - 45.3

Who moves on?

This is my beef with this little experiment. I bet you guys want it both ways, you want the points system to get into the playoffs, but H2H to determine a champion, or maybe some kind of 3 week playoff where every team plays each other and the one with the most "League points" win the championship

:-t


In my leagues we only use the Victory Points system for the regular season to reduce the luck factor inherent from a regular season schedule where a team might win several 65.4 - 45.3 games and make the playoffs over a team which loses several 115.6 - 113.2 type games. It's seen as a tool to help eliminate the vagaries of the schedule and everyone is really keen on the concept.

In the same manner that we try not to de-value the H2H victory by reducing the amount of points that a victory is awarded during the regular season, (and help to bridge the gap between the Victory Points system and the standard H2H system) we do strict H2H when the playoffs start. We do not see a need to continue to utilize the Victory Points concept in the playoffs or go to a 3 week playoff system. I think that doing otherwise would stray too far from the standard H2H methodology and be uncomfortable for some. While that may seem intuitively strange to use the Victory Points system in the regular season but not in the playoffs, everyone in the league has so far been happy with the setup and not voiced any desires to change. ;-D
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Re: "League Points" Scoring System?

Postby dream_017 » Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:35 pm

The Lung wrote:
dream_017 wrote:
FFisLife wrote:Also how do the playoffs work? :-S

Exactly, that is a very good question. Say you have 4 teams make the playoffs and the games turn out like this:
Game 1:
Team#1 - 115.6
Team#4 - 113.2

Game 2:
Team#2 - 65.4
Team#3 - 45.3

Who moves on?

This is my beef with this little experiment. I bet you guys want it both ways, you want the points system to get into the playoffs, but H2H to determine a champion, or maybe some kind of 3 week playoff where every team plays each other and the one with the most "League points" win the championship

:-t


In my leagues we only use the Victory Points system for the regular season to reduce the luck factor inherent from a regular season schedule where a team might win several 65.4 - 45.3 games and make the playoffs over a team which loses several 115.6 - 113.2 type games. It's seen as a tool to help eliminate the vagaries of the schedule and everyone is really keen on the concept.

In the same manner that we try not to de-value the H2H victory by reducing the amount of points that a victory is awarded during the regular season, (and help to bridge the gap between the Victory Points system and the standard H2H system) we do strict H2H when the playoffs start. We do not see a need to continue to utilize the Victory Points concept in the playoffs or go to a 3 week playoff system. I think that doing otherwise would stray too far from the standard H2H methodology and be uncomfortable for some. While that may seem intuitively strange to use the Victory Points system in the regular season but not in the playoffs, everyone in the league has so far been happy with the setup and not voiced any desires to change. ;-D

Has anyone gone back to look at how different standings would turn out between the 2 methods. I would be interested to see just how different they are. My guess is that the teams making the playoffs would be very similar in both set-ups.

A wise man once said:
It takes skill to make the playoffs but luck to win a championship
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Re: "League Points" Scoring System?

Postby Azrael » Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:43 pm

dream_017 wrote:
A wise man once said:
It takes skill to make the playoffs but luck to win a championship


As I recall, that was me :-D

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=331663&p=2353667&hilit=+skill+luck#p2353667
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Re: "League Points" Scoring System?

Postby dream_017 » Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:57 pm

Azrael wrote:
dream_017 wrote:
A wise man once said:
It takes skill to make the playoffs but luck to win a championship


As I recall, that was me :-D

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=331663&p=2353667&hilit=+skill+luck#p2353667

Correct, you are the wise man ;-D
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