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How many of you feel that TE should not be a position in FF?

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Postby greatgretzky » Wed Nov 12, 2003 1:27 pm

in two of my leagues, the top team has heap. I don't think there is enough of sample size here to make anythign of that. The configurations of all the top teams everywhere are all different. Yea the studs will eb the same, but no one is arguing that te's are really studly anyway.
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Postby emaja » Wed Nov 12, 2003 1:59 pm

If you want to be a passive owner and plug-in a TE all season, if you don't get one of the studs, then you are not getting the point of FF. Half the fun is finding the matchup that gets you the win that week. Really, how many of us sit around thinking, "Gosh, I have 3 stud RB's, but if I bench the wrong one, I'll lose."

Isn't it a great feeling when you pick one off the FA list and he gets 8 catches 70 yards and a score? Maybe a 2 pointer, too.
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Postby Purple_Pride » Wed Nov 12, 2003 2:09 pm

i think the TE should be included cause it adds so much strategy to your draft, do you draft that #2 WR like horn or moulds, etc or do i pick up a shockey, heap or gonzo? just cause they are tough points doesnt mean it should be abondoned
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TE in FFBALL

Postby crazchris » Wed Nov 12, 2003 4:17 pm

[quoteI completely disagree. Go look at the post about teams that drafted TE's early and you'll see how much of an x-factor they are. Realistically, they really aren't a factor at all. Yeah, the guy with Gonzo or Heap or Shockey will get an average of a few more points per week at TE, but they will lose points elsewhere]

It's not just about the name. It's about the system. most running based offenses use their TE's to distract from the screen passes or even as dump off guys in 3d down situations. Think about Mcmichael in Miami I picked him up and no one had a clue what he would do, pleasently surprised. It's about using your brain more TE's can be the X factor if you use them right.[/quote]
This information is for a research paper all names and information will be kept secure no names will be revealed and privacy is the number 1 issue. ok not everything is about the research I'll trash talk and give my input also.
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Postby Justifiable_Sin » Wed Nov 12, 2003 4:45 pm

Basicly ...youre dealing with two camps here ....the Traditionalists and .....everyone else.

Ive been playing for almost 20 years ...and for the first seven was a staunch traditionalist....believing that enforcing a TE position was being true to the spirit of the game....but over the years.....have come to realize that the "actual" true spirit of fantasy football lies within enforcing practicality, logistical stat/rule applications, fairness, organized structure and most of all ...democracy within its player base.

What does all that mean ?? Simply...Go with the flow
Our flow dictates that the TE position is archaic and obsolete.
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Postby greatgretzky » Wed Nov 12, 2003 5:06 pm

ok, if that is true, people should jsut start rb's wideouts and qb's. the other stuff is a crap shoot, and they aren't drafted high anyway.
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Postby The Dude_ffc » Wed Nov 12, 2003 5:55 pm

I like how FF somewhat mirrors real football. I'm thinking of adding fullbacks next season - really. No, not really. But I do like that TE's are used because they are a growing part of the game. They are becoming faster and more athletic all the time. You see Shockey and Heap used as wideouts. TE's are not consistent but are offensive producers in more defined tiers. If you play your cards right you can get a tier 1 TE and still have just as solid surrounding players. All you have to do is take one instead of your #2 receiver. How many good #2 receivers are available on ww during the first half of the season? Lots...Steve Smith, Santana Moss to name a couple this year.

Tier 1
Gonzalez
Heap
Shockey

Tier "just about all the same"
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Postby mtarail » Wed Nov 12, 2003 7:09 pm

I agree completely with altproject. I think you can analogize TE to the catcher position in baseball (and even to a degree the 3B position!). If catchers didn't suck at hitting they'd put up better #'s. If TE's could all actually block AND catch the ball like Heap and Gonzalez they'd all get their name called for a lot more plays and get better #'s. Having to decide whether you're going to spend an early pick on Heap/Gonzalez/Shockey (rip) or take a chance on Crumpler/Jones/Franks/Miller in the later rounds is what makes drafting and playing fantasy football fun.
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Postby Arlo » Thu Nov 13, 2003 6:01 am

Hmm... adding fullbacks would be interesting... (Position eligibility would make it a hassle, though ;-) )
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Re: TE in FFBALL

Postby KingGhidra » Thu Nov 13, 2003 9:56 am

davus wrote:
I completely disagree. Go look at the post about teams that drafted TE's early and you'll see how much of an x-factor they are. Realistically, they really aren't a factor at all. Yeah, the guy with Gonzo or Heap or Shockey will get an average of a few more points per week at TE, but they will lose points elsewhere.


You seem to be missing the bigger picture. Sure if you draft Tony G. in the middle of round 4, you're losing points elsewhere, but that's for every position.

Lets set up a mock scenario. I think most people would agree the breakdown of WRs selected in the first 5 rounds would go something like this.
Round - # selected - points averaged
1st - 1 - 158
2nd - 2 - 151
3rd - 6 - 102
4th - 8 - 83
5th - 6 -72

So let's assume you and I are in a draft occupying the middle positiins in a 12 team draft. Rounds 1-3 We each select 2 RBs and a WR. Now comes round 4. The top 9 WRs are off the board. The average points scored for the next 8 are 83 points at this point in the season. Lets say you grab one of those WRs. My pick, instead of taking a WR, I have my choice of a top 3 TE, which averages 65 points up to this point in the season. Round 5 we both pick out of the pool of 5th round WRs that are averaging 72 points at this point in the season. Now the draft continues on and somewhere around round 12 you pick up any old TE to stick in that spot and for arguments sake we say you got lucky and picked up a producer in the 11-12th TE range, which is averaging 33 points up to this point in the seaon. Assuming the rest of our picks are about equal lets see what we have.

At WR you have 102 + 83 = 190 + 33 (TE) = 222
At WR I have 102 + 72 = 174 + 65 (TE) = 239

I've got you beat by 17 points on the season, which is basically 2 PPG. Not a whole lot really, but FF is a game of accumulating small advantages. Now lets look at some other factors. If you happened to read the thread a week or so ago when we were debating the value of drafting 2 RBs right away v other draft strategies, I ran some VBD #s and compared them to pre-season rankings (I'll post a link shortly). One of the trends that was discovered was, after round 3, the % of outright busts increased tremendously (over 50%) I think.

Think about the WRs who would have been going in round 4. Plax, K-Rob, Boston, Toomer, Rod Smith, Bruce, Driver etc etc. That's a lot of guys who aren't living up to expectations. So if you pass on that in round 4 and went for a top 3 TE, guess what... The preseason TE rankings were Gonzalez, Shockey, Heap. Guess who are in the top 3 currently? Gonzalez, Shockey, Heap.

There's no such thing as a sure thing, but those 3 are damn close. Also their consistency is very valuable also. Gonzalez has only had 2 subpar games at this point. By comparison, Itula Mili (#11 TE) has had 3 games with 0 points, 1 game with 1 point and 1 game with 2 points. That's 55% of the time he is almost worthless to your team.
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