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Week 20 GC: Philadelphia @ Arizona

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Re: Week 20 GC: Philadelphia @ Arizona

Postby Metroid » Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:02 pm

steelerfan513 wrote:
A Fleshner Fantasy wrote:The Cardinals are averaging 29.2 points per game at home this year. They scored 32 on the Eagles defense. So actually, the Eagles defense was basically average given who they were playing against and where.


Met basically already said this, but I typed this post up so dammit, I'm posting it. :-B

If Philadelphia were ranked 16th in the NFL in total defense, their performance yesterday would be acceptable because it would be an average performance from an average defense. But the Eagles were ranked 3rd in the NFL in total defense. Elite defenses are supposed to make offenses perform below their averages, not at or above them. McNabb's errant throws definitely had something to do with Philly's loss yesterday, but his ultimate statistics look to be around what's expected of him, if not more so. The defense should shoulder much more of the blame for not playing at the level expected of them.

Time of possession didn't have anything to do with it either. Philly (by my rough and likely inaccurate calcluations) actually led the first half and the game in time of possession by a few seconds; their secondary just got toasted.

I was wondering if anyone else would join in. :-B

Philly's time of possession for the game was 30:04 to Arizona's 29:56, pretty much even. And I have about the same rough estimates as to their time of possession in the first half. It's not like Philly was going 3 and out and Philly's D was on the field the whole game, that just did not happen.

Saying....
A Fleshner Fantasy wrote:If anything, it's the offenses fault that the D was on the field so much.

...is simply not true.
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Re: Week 20 GC: Philadelphia @ Arizona

Postby Tyeattolah » Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:03 pm

COurtesy of USA Today:

McNabb pleads his case, with caution

" Each year is an opportunity for you to add more weapons, more guys who can contribute to what you want to do,: he siad in what seemingly amounted to a cry for offensive help. "

I don't know guys, I think Donovan is already saying it ain't his fault. So Westbrook, Jackson, Baskett, Smith/Celek, Buckholter etc aren't enough. I'm sorry but I'm beginning to believe TO ... :-D
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Re: Week 20 GC: Philadelphia @ Arizona

Postby SLAMLLC » Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:09 pm

McNabb had some spots in the game where he let his team down, Did he lose the game for them? No. Giving up 32 points in a championship game loses. I believe McNabb was on the bench when 32 points were scored. You simply cannot give up 32 points and expect to win a game especially a title game. That is just rediculous. Offense wins games, Defense wins Championships. It has been proven many, many times.
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Re: Week 20 GC: Philadelphia @ Arizona

Postby joejlitz » Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:40 pm

Metroid wrote:In the game I watched McNabb struggled in the first half and made some bad throws the entire game however I also saw a pathetic attempt at defense by the Eagles. Like I said McNabb could have played better but the fact remains that Philly's D did not show up, they looked horrible. You're completely ignoring what he did in the 2nd half to put his team in a position to win. He obviously needed help from his defense and didn't get it.


I agree to a certain extent. McNabb should have made some better throws, but he played a great game. He just did not play a perfect game, which was only necessary because the defense sucked in the first half.

Not McNabb's fault.
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Re: Week 20 GC: Philadelphia @ Arizona

Postby joejlitz » Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:00 pm

A Fleshner Fantasy wrote:I'm not ignoring what he did in the 2nd half. He did a lot better than he played in the first half, but that doesn't mean that he did well in the 2nd half.
2nd half stats: 16/26 for 205 yards, 3 TDs, and 10 rushing yards. Not sure what your definition of "well" is, but those numbers are great. Again, he was not perfect, but he was great in the 2nd half.

A Fleshner Fantasy wrote: Keep in mind, if the refs hadn't completely blown the call on that kickoff, the game likely would have been out of reach before the 2nd half.


You can't know that. A TD was not automatic for the Cards and they still got a FG before the half, so it actually worked out just fine for them regardless of the screwed up officials call.
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Re: Week 20 GC: Philadelphia @ Arizona

Postby joejlitz » Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:12 pm

Munboy wrote:
Metroid wrote:I still say McNabb played well enough to win. :-D


He did......ok. He didn't lose the game, he just didn't play well enough to win it...lets put it that way.

This is the type of thinking that would cause McNabb to want to leave. As I said in an earlier post, McNabb did not have a perfect game and that's what it would have taken to win this game because the defense played so poorly and...how about those other reasons? How about that fact that McNabb was the whole offense? Westbrook did not explode like we needed him to. Akers missed a FG, an XP, and kicked a kickoff out of bounds.

Throughout his career, McNabb has failed to be able to throw the short touch pass, often putting the ball at the RB/WR feet. He also can't lead a receiver to get him in stride. McNabb had issues with that yesterday, but he always has had those problems. That's nothing new.
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Re: Week 20 GC: Philadelphia @ Arizona

Postby A Fleshner Fantasy » Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:14 pm

steelerfan513 wrote: Elite defenses are supposed to make offenses perform below their averages, not at or above them.


Just like elite QBs are supposed to do better than "just well enough that they have a chance to win," rather than at or below "just well enough so they have a chance to win."

It's a double sided sword here. Just like you can argue that McNabb gave them a chance, to win, I can argue that the defense did as well. Yes, Philly is an elite defense, but Arizona is an elite offense. Just like you can argue that McNabb led them on scoring drives in the 2nd half, I can argue that prior to each of those drives, the defense got a stop so that the lead wasn't expanded.
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Re: Week 20 GC: Philadelphia @ Arizona

Postby steelerfan513 » Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:41 am

A Fleshner Fantasy wrote:
steelerfan513 wrote: Elite defenses are supposed to make offenses perform below their averages, not at or above them.


Just like elite QBs are supposed to do better than "just well enough that they have a chance to win," rather than at or below "just well enough so they have a chance to win."

It's a double sided sword here. Just like you can argue that McNabb gave them a chance, to win, I can argue that the defense did as well. Yes, Philly is an elite defense, but Arizona is an elite offense. Just like you can argue that McNabb led them on scoring drives in the 2nd half, I can argue that prior to each of those drives, the defense got a stop so that the lead wasn't expanded.


I'd consider 375 yards and 3 passing TDs much better than "just well enough that they have a chance to win." 32 points given up by one of the league's best defenses fits that description much better, although that might be giving the defense too much credit.

Yes, they did a good job in the second half apart from one drive. But again, that doesn't excuse an awful first half. If they hadn't given up 24 first half points, McNabb could've used that dominant stretch in the second half to build a double-digit lead instead of dig out of a double-digit hole.

I don't care how good Arizona's offense is; elite defenses are expected to hold their opponents below their average production, even if that means giving up more points than they're used to. If a defense allows 16 points per game on average and an opposing offense scores 32 points per game on average, 24 points allowed would be an acceptable outcome. 32 points would be a victory for the offense.
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