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Re: 2009 Season and Beyond discussion

Postby Kareighuis » Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:49 pm

bungle613 wrote:
thriftyrocker wrote:
bungle613 wrote:When do we allow the owners that do not ahve 28 man rosters and will not fill 28 man rosters in the 2 round FA draft to fill their rosters?


I would suggest we just continue the draft until no one wants to draft anymore. With your pick you should say 1) who you're dropping if applicable and 2) if you plan on drafting next round or not.

Eventually it will just be LS2 filling out his roster in one post. I doubt it will go much more than 2 rounds since only LS2 and I need more than 2 guys.


I persoanlly do not have an issue with that, I would actually prefer it but I think we need league approval to go ahead with that.


I think that's the way it should be done. In my mind, that's the most logical option.

I would also like to submit a proposal for league approval. A number of us hold developmental prospects that stand on the verge of being fantasy factors. OTAs weren't enough to clarify the murky situation they're in at the moment- rather it gave tantalizing glimpses of the potential.

What I propose- extra roster spots (2-4) for training-camp/preseason. At some point, all teams would need to cut down to 28 roster spots. Until then, that would give enough time for players to recover from offseason surgery, new players to be incorporated into schemes, legal issues to be resolved and new offensive and defensive philosophies to be installed, for instance.

We could set the cut date similar to the NFL cut deadlines- at the start of the Hall of Game, or after the wk3 preseason games, when the NFL goes through one of its roster cutdowns. Are you opposed to the idea?
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Re: 2009 Season and Beyond discussion

Postby Instinctive » Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:58 pm

That is a great idea, and they use it in the Zealots leagues. They expand rosters to 60 for offseason and before week 1 you cut down to 53 or less.


We could have like 32? And allow those spots to be held until the week before the first game?
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Re: 2009 Season and Beyond discussion

Postby bungle613 » Wed Jun 24, 2009 3:23 pm

Kareighuis wrote:
bungle613 wrote:
thriftyrocker wrote:
I would suggest we just continue the draft until no one wants to draft anymore. With your pick you should say 1) who you're dropping if applicable and 2) if you plan on drafting next round or not.

Eventually it will just be LS2 filling out his roster in one post. I doubt it will go much more than 2 rounds since only LS2 and I need more than 2 guys.


I persoanlly do not have an issue with that, I would actually prefer it but I think we need league approval to go ahead with that.


I think that's the way it should be done. In my mind, that's the most logical option.

I would also like to submit a proposal for league approval. A number of us hold developmental prospects that stand on the verge of being fantasy factors. OTAs weren't enough to clarify the murky situation they're in at the moment- rather it gave tantalizing glimpses of the potential.

What I propose- extra roster spots (2-4) for training-camp/preseason. At some point, all teams would need to cut down to 28 roster spots. Until then, that would give enough time for players to recover from offseason surgery, new players to be incorporated into schemes, legal issues to be resolved and new offensive and defensive philosophies to be installed, for instance.

We could set the cut date similar to the NFL cut deadlines- at the start of the Hall of Game, or after the wk3 preseason games, when the NFL goes through one of its roster cutdowns. Are you opposed to the idea?


The issues with this are...

1) Several owners have already made cuts as per the present rules of cutting down prior to the FA draft
2) Trades may not have been made for dumping picks or players if owners had knownw they can keep a player for an additional 1-2 months to "see" if they pan out
3) I am a firm believer in a cut down prior to camp for dynasty and keeper leagues.

I would be against this proposal but not enough to be a jerk about it. If the majority of teh league wants it, then we can do it.

I also realize this is not the easiest thing for Kareighuis and Joey to just jump into a league or even for myself to inherit a league. If you see issues, present them and we will work it out just like this.
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Re: 2009 Season and Beyond discussion

Postby JoeySeven » Wed Jun 24, 2009 3:44 pm

bungle613 wrote:
thriftyrocker wrote:
bungle613 wrote:When do we allow the owners that do not ahve 28 man rosters and will not fill 28 man rosters in the 2 round FA draft to fill their rosters?


I would suggest we just continue the draft until no one wants to draft anymore. With your pick you should say 1) who you're dropping if applicable and 2) if you plan on drafting next round or not.

Eventually it will just be LS2 filling out his roster in one post. I doubt it will go much more than 2 rounds since only LS2 and I need more than 2 guys.


I persoanlly do not have an issue with that, I would actually prefer it but I think we need league approval to go ahead with that.


I'm all for a FA draft too,I need 4 players to fill my roster.And I plan on dropping A few players during the draft too.
It should go pretty fast once we are down to the last few teams that want to pick.
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Re: 2009 Season and Beyond discussion

Postby LS2throwed » Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:45 pm

FA seems logical and pretty easy...Most people are cutting down and not picking up anyway, and let people draft snake style until their roster is completely full, I don't mind getting who is left but that seems like the best way for everyone to fill their rosters before TC.
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Re: 2009 Season and Beyond discussion

Postby Kareighuis » Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:33 pm

bungle613 wrote:The issues with this are...

1) Several owners have already made cuts as per the present rules of cutting down prior to the FA draft
2) Trades may not have been made for dumping picks or players if owners had knownw they can keep a player for an additional 1-2 months to "see" if they pan out
3) I am a firm believer in a cut down prior to camp for dynasty and keeper leagues.

I would be against this proposal but not enough to be a jerk about it. If the majority of teh league wants it, then we can do it.

I also realize this is not the easiest thing for Kareighuis and Joey to just jump into a league or even for myself to inherit a league. If you see issues, present them and we will work it out just like this.


1) I imagine, should those teams respond, the referenced player(s) could be reassigned, as Stallworth and Hilliard once were;
2) That's a reasonable point, but one could argue that many of the roster-spot unbalanced trades were done to clear space. The clearest example is Instinctive's firesale, as he tried to get what he could for players he'd have to cut anyway. The Headlights pursued the exact opposite strategy, trying to grab young players to compensate for such deadweights as Ahman Green. The players cut till now had no trade value- Jacob Hester, Reggie Williams, Syndric Steptoe, Dan Orlovsky;
3) I agree- the cuts should be required before the preseason games end. I personally prefer the before the Hall of Fame Game, August 9th. After all the training camps (with their varying termination dates), before the preseason games themselves.
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Re: 2009 Season and Beyond discussion

Postby bungle613 » Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:04 am

Kareighuis wrote:
bungle613 wrote:The issues with this are...

1) Several owners have already made cuts as per the present rules of cutting down prior to the FA draft
2) Trades may not have been made for dumping picks or players if owners had knownw they can keep a player for an additional 1-2 months to "see" if they pan out
3) I am a firm believer in a cut down prior to camp for dynasty and keeper leagues.

I would be against this proposal but not enough to be a jerk about it. If the majority of teh league wants it, then we can do it.

I also realize this is not the easiest thing for Kareighuis and Joey to just jump into a league or even for myself to inherit a league. If you see issues, present them and we will work it out just like this.


1) I imagine, should those teams respond, the referenced player(s) could be reassigned, as Stallworth and Hilliard once were;
2) That's a reasonable point, but one could argue that many of the roster-spot unbalanced trades were done to clear space. The clearest example is Instinctive's firesale, as he tried to get what he could for players he'd have to cut anyway. The Headlights pursued the exact opposite strategy, trying to grab young players to compensate for such deadweights as Ahman Green. The players cut till now had no trade value- Jacob Hester, Reggie Williams, Syndric Steptoe, Dan Orlovsky;
3) I agree- the cuts should be required before the preseason games end. I personally prefer the before the Hall of Fame Game, August 9th. After all the training camps (with their varying termination dates), before the preseason games themselves.


1) Yes, I suppose they could be reassigned if the majority of the league votes this through.

2) You, nor no one else can say what trade value any players have if allowed to stay on a roster for an additional 2 months. If Schaub blows his knee in the first preseason game then Orlovsky's value is huge. Bottom line is that trades that have been made may bot have been if owners has known they could have kept players for 2 months to see how it went in training camp. This proposal at this point could effect too many things that can not be undone. Would an owner have made a certain trade if they had known they could have kept a player for 2 months? Would that draft pick have been traded? Would that firesale have happened? Too many question marks to cahnge it now imo.

3) That is not what I said. I believe in dynasty leagues cut downs should be PRIOR to camp. It has too much potential to sway things if allowed to see players in camp and preseason. I will throw out the Hass vs Colston example. In deep dynsaties Hass was drafted prior to Colston in most leagues when the draft was held in June. Any rookie drafts held in August... Colston would have been taken giving anyone with a higher draft pick a huge advantage.

Dynasties are about owners spotting talent from college. Read, watch and see if you can find that guy that is going to make it in the pros. It isn't about let's see how camp and preseason goes and then decide.


Again, I just simply disagree with the proposal for the above reasons and my vote is a large no to this. 2010? maybe but really, still doubtful for me. At this point in time I feel it effects what has already been done too much.
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Re: 2009 Season and Beyond discussion

Postby Instinctive » Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:35 am

Bungle makes a good point, although if rookie draft has alreayd happened, I see no problem holding the roster limits up until after TC or even til the end of preseason.

I think that we should vote on this, and b/c of the problems already mentioned (most presented by me lol I would want back Wallace and maybe Simpson but that's probably it...) we could say that we put it into effect next season?

I think that makes the most sense...we could expand the rosters until TC/preseason/whatever date and then cutdown...starting next year.
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Re: 2009 Season and Beyond discussion

Postby LS2throwed » Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:43 am

Maybe it's just me but I don't get the whole cutdown thing, I thought we were just slowly moving towards the max that flea holds at 31? If I grab a guy in June in a Dynasty, there is a 99% chance I'll still want him in August, the only thing I've did is let everyone know I'm interested in him and if they haven't heard of him do their research on him...If I pick up anyone, I plan on keeping them for at least a year, so I just don't see the point in adding then dropping if were going to be at the max soon.


Dynasties are about owners spotting talent from college. Read, watch and see if you can find that guy that is going to make it in the pros. It isn't about let's see how camp and preseason goes and then decide.



Agree 200%.
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Re: 2009 Season and Beyond discussion

Postby Kareighuis » Thu Jun 25, 2009 1:39 am

LS2throwed wrote:Maybe it's just me but I don't get the whole cutdown thing, I thought we were just slowly moving towards the max that flea holds at 31? If I grab a guy in June in a Dynasty, there is a 99% chance I'll still want him in August, the only thing I've did is let everyone know I'm interested in him and if they haven't heard of him do their research on him...If I pick up anyone, I plan on keeping them for at least a year, so I just don't see the point in adding then dropping if were going to be at the max soon.

That's something I've thought about- I didn't consider cutdown so much to acquire and then cut true sleepers, but more for injuries/legal-issues/retirement. Plax and Favre come most immediately to mind. I'm not even looking at rosters, but if either joins the teams they're rumored, Tarvaris and Stuckey could easily be expendable.

I imagined the cutdown happening before live action, to avoid such issues Bungle outlined about somehow Orlovsky becoming valuable. And the mad scramble for Grossman. It also has the benefit of making the league more like the NFL. In another league, we're considering all sorts of options to enhance realism, like a HC position being the tiebreaker.

Bungle wrote:Dynasties are about owners spotting talent from college. Read, watch and see if you can find that guy that is going to make it in the pros. It isn't about let's see how camp and preseason goes and then decide.
I believe in dynasty leagues cut downs should be PRIOR to camp. It has too much potential to sway things if allowed to see players in camp and preseason. I will throw out the Hass vs Colston example. In deep dynsaties Hass was drafted prior to Colston in most leagues when the draft was held in June. Any rookie drafts held in August... Colston would have been taken giving anyone with a higher draft pick a huge advantage.


I agree and think LS2's underselling the percentage- it's about the talent. If people ignore the talent and allow themselves to pursue those who have a clear shot at a starting job, so be it. Let themselves run around ragged, reading up to the second TC breaking news while we've already finished our scouting. TC is all about glitter and hype. They'll go after the flavor of the minute while we calmly build the most talented rosters.
So, I think any cutdowns should be done before preseason games, to avoid live-fire injuries. I'm at most indifferent about how much before the preseason.
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