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Re: 2009 Season and Beyond discussion

Postby Kareighuis » Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:16 pm

Allright, prepare for the page-worth (or more) of response. When I'm done, it will be obvious Kensat ain't got nothing on me.

Since there seems to have been some confusion on exactly what is being proposed, and I don't think my attempts to clarify helped, judging from certain responses, here it is again- I am proposing a preseason roster extension to Flea's non-IR limits this season. We're already planning to be at that limit next year. At a predetermined time, every roster would have to be cut down to 28. Basically, an additionally two roster spots for roughly a month- every team would cut down before the Hall of Fame game, August 9th. I liked Bungle's idea of making the cuts pre-TC, but teams start and end at different times and I haven't yet found a resource listing them for each team.

Bungle, I got your question referenced below. My response was a sleep-deprived confused mess, and so I deleted it.

bungle613 wrote:I posed this question to Kareighuis in a PM on this subject. Curious how anyone else who would like to see a cut down period would answer it.
In 2010 you will being going into the rookie draft with a roster of 28. Some of you will have 4 picks + 2 FA picks. Do we then raise the roster limit to 34 for a cut down period. Who's going to keep track of that? I can't gett ehm on Flea. Worse in 2011 when it could be 36 guys on your team.


I don't see the the pre-cut roster expanding each year, as the regular season rosters are currently planned. Again, the idea had been to emulate the NFL: 80 players during OTAs, approx 75 during TC, 53 before the preseason ends.
As mentioned in private, I'm opposed to forcing the creation of an independent method to track players possesed over Flea's roster limit. No preseason roster could go over this hard limit. Doing so would: a) make it more complicated for the commish, and b) make this list correspondingly less accessible to the members. Any preseason roster limit should be capped at whatever Flea's roster limit is.

LS2throwed wrote:
redfox33 wrote:I don't think we should go beyond 28 as there isn't any quallity left for wavers in case one team gets hit hard with ir or players getting suspended etc. I like the reg idea of make your rookie picks and then cut down within a week or so and let the Wavier system work.

Yea but if you have 30 man rosters your not really concerned with an injury or suspension because you have the depth and room to prepare for it...There's still always going to be quality in waivers, just unknowns for the most part.

Rosters are so deep, you likely won't be able to run to the waiver to get a starting RB. Maybe you'll be able to get a starting WR. Maybe. My team would be one of the most susceptible to injuries due to my lack of depth, and thus is most at risk if the proposal carries. But, I like the idea of expanded rosters- dynasty is about spotting and sitting on talent. Some, like Choice last year, turn a profit sooner than expected. Perhaps Andre Brown will be another perform.

bungle613 wrote:I am going to make the call and unless a decided majority (75%) want to do this it will not be passed.
I suggest that Kareighuis present a poll with distinct questions...
1) do you want an expanded roster for camp and preseason and then a cut down period closer to the start of the season?
2) If so, implement it for 2009
3) If so, implement it for 2010.
4) No, I want the cut down period to be immediately following the rookie draft and then the FA draft making cuts as that goes.

I'll consider a version of this poll. I liked the proposal I posted, but wanted to hear what others had to say. It seems there aren't enough interested parties, especially considering the suddenly-changed standards to get this passed. As far as I can tell right now, one person was really in support of this, but I'm with Bungle and think any cut-down should be before preseason games to prevent fallout from live-fire injuries. Bungle would prefer the cutdown to be before TC- I'm indifferent to this.
Some have brought up good points. The best point made wasn't against the idea itself, but the timing-
Bungle wrote:Trades may not have been made for dumping picks or players if owners had knownw they can keep a player...At this point in time I feel it effects what has already been done too much.

The rest can be knocked over by a stiff wind, but this...
Unless other leaguemates argue otherwise, I will no longer be pushing this proposal. Thank you to everyone who voiced an opinion, even if I disagreed with it. Thanks especially to Bungle.

aaawall91 wrote:Next year install a later cut down period? Okay maybe. I'm against it. Once we are done drafting rosters should be within the limits. That way months (weeks?) later when the WW does open upon there is actual meaning to claims being put in.

I don't know what limits you're referring to. I am (was?) proposing a preseason roster extension to Flea's limits this year. Next year, we'll already be at Flea's non-IR limit, so this proposal doesn't apply to it.

Oh, and what's this-
bungle613 wrote:I don't want to go to the full 32 (includes IR spots) as the drafting logistics would be a nightmare.

Define "nightmare"? How does flea handle the IR? I'm in one league that has a 2-man IR team as a practice squad. But, call them up during the season and team's can place a waiver claim on him.

OK, maybe it wasn't epic, uber-Kensatian, but I gave an effort.
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Re: 2009 Season and Beyond discussion

Postby bungle613 » Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:32 pm

I'll give you a solid B for th post dude.

I think you and I have hashed out all this and know where each other stands so the only point I will address is the logistical nightmare.

As it stands now rosters were expanded on Flea to 30 to accomodate everyone's draft picks. Next year we will be at that 30 leaving 2 open spots to temporarily expand rosters. It is problematic for me and for everyone in the league to keep track of all players owned on 2 different sites.

Examples of this would be...

Owner A looking to cut a deal with owner B except the complete rosters are not listed on Flea because they won't fit.

Once we hit 30 man rosters at the end of a season the best I can do during a rookie draft is load the first 2 rounds onto Flea. Leaving the potential for several players to be in limbo for an extended period of time.

This is a tremendously trade happy league. Keeping track of players without having immediate roster limits would be a nightmare. Owner a wants to deal players A, B and C to Owner B. Except for the possible scenario that they can't do it without me loading and removing players from their rosters.


What I want to see purely for the simplicity level of it is the draft to take place, the cut downs to occur and players loaded onto Flea once the roster level is achieved. Sweet, simple and done.
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Re: 2009 Season and Beyond discussion

Postby Instinctive » Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:57 pm

We could just say "everyone at 28." Do FA draft, you can hit 30. Everyone can have 30 always, never more.

Wouldn't a simple hard limit fo 30 be easiest of all?
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Re: 2009 Season and Beyond discussion

Postby bungle613 » Thu Jun 25, 2009 11:08 pm

Instinctive wrote:We could just say "everyone at 28." Do FA draft, you can hit 30. Everyone can have 30 always, never more.

Wouldn't a simple hard limit fo 30 be easiest of all?


A hard limit of 30 will be implemented for 2010, not this year.
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Re: 2009 Season and Beyond discussion

Postby Instinctive » Thu Jun 25, 2009 11:13 pm

But if we all cut down to 28 for the FA draft, couldn't we just say go to 30 and that's it now and always?
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Re: 2009 Season and Beyond discussion

Postby LS2throwed » Thu Jun 25, 2009 11:19 pm

Is there a date for the start of the FA draft yet?
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Re: 2009 Season and Beyond discussion

Postby bungle613 » Thu Jun 25, 2009 11:28 pm

Instinctive wrote:But if we all cut down to 28 for the FA draft, couldn't we just say go to 30 and that's it now and always?



Changing things in the middle is never a good idea. People have made moves while not solely because of the rules in place but with those rules in mind. No one can say what trades would or wouldn't have been made if everyone had known the rosters were going ot 30 this year instead of next.

Rosters will stay at 28 for this year, move to 30 next year. This weekend I will rewrite the rules and amke and updates needed.
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Re: 2009 Season and Beyond discussion

Postby bungle613 » Sat Jun 27, 2009 12:28 am

Just an update for those affected... Flea has notified me that their provider does not list Moore, Donaldson and Foster. They have taken note of these 3 players and if their provider does not upadte it closer to training camp they will manually enter them.

Waiting on Yankee to make cuts to start the FA draft.
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Re: 2009 Season and Beyond discussion

Postby yankeekd25 » Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:39 am

bungle613 wrote:Just an update for those affected... Flea has notified me that their provider does not list Moore, Donaldson and Foster. They have taken note of these 3 players and if their provider does not upadte it closer to training camp they will manually enter them.

Waiting on Yankee to make cuts to start the FA draft.


I cut Darius Walker, Ryan Fitzpatrick and Andre Hall
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Re: 2009 Season and Beyond discussion

Postby bungle613 » Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:48 pm

yankeekd25 wrote:
bungle613 wrote:Just an update for those affected... Flea has notified me that their provider does not list Moore, Donaldson and Foster. They have taken note of these 3 players and if their provider does not upadte it closer to training camp they will manually enter them.

Waiting on Yankee to make cuts to start the FA draft.


I cut Darius Walker, Ryan Fitzpatrick and Andre Hall



Good, ok... we are set to go. July 1 is a good date to go with for the start of the FA draft. Reverse order of last years standings, SNAKE style draft. Picks are tradeable, just not future FA picks. EG: You CAN deal a FA pick for a player or a 2010 draft pick. You CAN NOT trade a 2010 FA pick.

I think I have a way around that but that is for 2010.

Thread will be posted in the next day or so. 24 hours per pick, PM the guy after you.

Please remember that this is an immediate cut FA draft. Should you choose to participate in it you will post like so...

1.01 Barry Sanders - RB, FA

cut

Chris Collinsworth - WR, FA

Cut players are not draftable. They will go into the WW pool.

Should you choose not to participate in the FA draft, please post at the time of your first scheduled pick... PASS. This will eliminate you from the FA draft.
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