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Re: League Jibber Jabber

Postby Instinctive » Sat Aug 13, 2011 7:32 am

I don't know that it was a bad idea so much as something we hadn't done before. Now we have learned a lot for next year. The first auction draft was a fiasco too.
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Re: League Jibber Jabber

Postby LS2throwed » Sun Aug 14, 2011 11:51 am

Not to beat a dead horse or anything, but I haven't been able to be around to respond at all. First of let me say any player at this point isn't really a big deal, I just want to see that processes are done fairly.


Nowhere does it say anything about PMing. It's incumbent upon each member to diligently check. Nor is the role of PMing in determining when the clock starts mentioned anywhere in the most recent mock I've participated in-
Please submit all picks in the following format:

1.01 Peyton Manning - QB, IND

Pick #, then name, then a dash, then the position, then a comma, then team (use three letter abbreviation for team)

Remember to PM the person who picks after you!

I intended to pick up Lonyae Miller with my pick after Doucet. Unfortunately, I lost track of time and allowed it to expire. I wish I could turn back the clock, but I can't. Maybe argue vociferously that, hey, I was busy with life/work and I get to pick. But, rules are rules. Too bad, so sad.

According to the rules, which were expressed clearly at every available time from the beginning of this process, Instinctive is the only team left. Accordingly, he can list as many players as he wants, as long as he has/makes the roster space. We did something similar some years ago, when LS2 was the last person in the FA draft and he just listed who he wanted.

That is my very firm opinion- despite the fact that I'm completely screwing myself on the hot young RB that apparently we all want. The facts are there's only one team in this PWA process- Instinctive.



Of course a PM isn't a rule anywhere. But since when do we just say "oh well" if a guy doesn't get pm'd and skip him and that's his loss? It's pretty much an unwriten rule in every cafe league I've ever done. It would be different if I had read it, then forgot. But for most of this I've had to text Thrifty my picks or what I wanted to do. My internet went out with a storm(still waiting for Time Warner to come out as I'm at starbucks now) and my phone has only been working half of the time.

Between all these other drafts it's really hard to keep up with exactly how many leagues you have picks in, what pick is next, and I don't have the time to sit and wait for my crappy Iphone to load up every league on here, after taking forever to even find that subforum. I've already told Thrifty it's not his fault as I've forgotten to do PM the next owner numerous times, but in any circumstances I don't see how you should proceed to skip the owner who didn't get a PM, don't let him re-make his picks what so ever(even though 1 of the guys I claimed didn't get picked at all), and let every other pick after mine stand pat.

This isn't the marines, or boarding school. It seemed like a pretty easy problem to fix other then it seemed like some were racing to finish this out. That's perfectly fine, but I'm not buying the whole "it was never a rule that you needed to receive a PM, and if you don't it's your fault for not checking" thing. It be different if it were September 4th and we were trying to get the league rolling, but it's not. Why shouldn't I get the guys I want before having to use my waiver bid on them?


Typically I am always around, I had an unexpected event happen at my house which sucked all around, and wasn't able to be around on the daily to check and see when it was my turn. There were alot more important things I missed out on in comparison to this draft, so it wasn't like I just got lazy.


It's over yes, I'm not still arguing to get any said players, just that I disagree that were turned into this gung-ho every man for himself, if you don't get a PM screw you because life has to go on and who cares if your busy, type of league. I've never done a league here where if a guy didn't get pm'd, his clock expired, and the next guy or 2 went that we wouldn't let the original owner pick when he returned. That's also not written in any rule either, to me it's just common courtesy.


A PM goes directly to my phone to at least give me a reminder or a heads up, and I don't really think it would have set anyone too far back. But this is not a last ditch effort to get any players, or re-set anything.


Lastly K, I appreciate and respect everything you do, and have done for the league. It's not easy to be a commish, especially with a transition like we have faced. You have done a good job, as has C4L, this is just an issue/situation that I obviously disagreed with and just wanted to speak my peace since I didn't get a shot to b4.


Onto the regular season it is...
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Re: League Jibber Jabber

Postby Instinctive » Sun Aug 14, 2011 7:20 pm

Not to sound all "gung-ho screw you" but on a 24 hour clock especially...no PM should be necessary. If you don't have the time to check in once a day, you messed up. (And I messed up to - let's note that I also missed my 24 hours and didn't get a PM.) It's just part of how it is.

24 hours is plenty of time, PM or not. Period. End of story. Kaput. We knew the rules ahead of time (get skipped, you're done). We all agreed on them. And that's how it was.

That's perfectly fine, but I'm not buying the whole "it was never a rule that you needed to receive a PM, and if you don't it's your fault for not checking" thing.


It was never a rule to send a PM. You should, but sometimes you forget. The guy picking should know. It may not be boarding school or the marines...but it isn't pre school either. We're all big boys (and girls? Do we have any girls in this league?) and we ought to be able to take some responsibility for our own actions.

You missed the clock. You got skipped. You passed all future picks.
Kareig missed the clock. Got skipped. Passed all future picks.
I missed the clock. Got skipped. Passed all future picks.
Thrifty missed the clock. Got skipped. Passed all future picks.

That's it. Period. Oh well. We all knew the rules going in.
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Re: League Jibber Jabber

Postby stomperrob » Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:43 am

Why is Jacquizz Rodgers on the WW??????????????????????? 8-o :-?
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Re: League Jibber Jabber

Postby Kareighuis » Tue Aug 16, 2011 1:41 am

Alright, I hope this is near the end of this-

1) With Stomper's post above, went through the list of players drafted on the draft tracker thread. They're rostered, so it seems Jacquizz Rodgers was the only oversight. Can't add him till The Show gets to the mandated roster limit.
2) Flea now has many of the players drafted when they were UDFAs. Adding them now.
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Re: League Jibber Jabber

Postby Kareighuis » Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:58 am

Original Post
Kareighuis wrote:
Kareighuis wrote:Chad Scott= Chad Spann
Drafted by Kareig; roster correctly
Ciatrick Fason= Mario Fannin
Drafted by LS2; rostered correctly
Derek Devine= Noel Devine
Drafted by Thrifty; rostered correctly
Darnell Sanders= Wesley Saunders
Drafted by Awal; rostered incorrectly; fixed
D.J. Ware= D.J. Williams
Not applicable. DJ Williams found in system. Drafted by IAG and correctly rostered.

Noel Devine and Wesley Saunders (entered as "Weslye") are both in Flea's system. Spann (Friehauf) and Fannin (Hill) are now entered correctly.
Derrick Locke, drafted by Awal, is Derrick Law
DeAndre Brown, drafted by Lung, is Jarrett Brown
Graig Cooper, drafted by Thrifty, is in Flea's system.
I'll have to get a look again, but I couldn't find a Cameron Kenney, either in Flea or on the Temporary Replacement List in this thread.
Damien Berry, drafted by Awal, is Damien Anderson.
LS2 has too many players and won't let me add Terrance Tolliver, who is in Flea's system.

DeAndre Brown's placeholder, along with Noel Devine and Craig Cooper, were cut recently. Saunders, Spann, Fannin, Locke, Berry and Tolliver are all rostered in Flea, not their placeholders.

Also, the following teams need to make cuts to bring their roster to the league-mandated maximum-
Lone Star State- must cut 4
The Show- must cut 5 (4 plus another so Jacquizz Rodgers can be added)

I can understand the desire to not cut any more to watch preseason games, but it's only fair, since all the other teams followed the rules. I think it's only fair that each owner make their cuts, rather than someone else.

My problem with the pre-waiver we used is two-fold-
1) If a player suddenly was the hot add, only that owner OTC would have a shot at him. The other aspect of this was they wouldn't have to throw blind-bid bucks at him. In 2 separate leagues, I used 40 BBB to secure an unowned player in this league. Overkill? Perhaps, but I wanted to make certain. Using this pre-waiver system would have allowed me to get him without paying the BBB price.

2) The rules say a team is forever passed if they pass once or allow the clock to expire. While that certainly seemed logical if a team had no intention to add players, the side-affects can be bad. For instance, if there's suddenly a hot waiver add everyone wants, it can come down to just two owners while everyone else (the passers and the clock-expirers) is forced to watch.

I think the ideal is go with the standard waiver wire once the preseason starts. We can use this Pre-Waiver system again (with amendments as requested), it just should end before the preseason games start and unknown depth guys suddenly have tangible value.

Finally, LS2, I sympathize with your situation. I can imagine we'd play this differently if we weren't discussing end-of-the-roster guys. In fact, I think this thing became too much "every man for himself", as I described above. If news broke while I was OTC, all the other teams would be screwed. We need a more equitable system. This wasn't. To me, regular waivers should start once the preseason starts- game performances and injuries can create sudden waiver gems that only one team has a chance at.

Oh, and my Android phone laughs at your Iphone.
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Re: League Jibber Jabber

Postby stomperrob » Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:27 pm

Kareighuis wrote:Original Post
Kareighuis wrote:
Kareighuis wrote:Chad Scott= Chad Spann
Drafted by Kareig; roster correctly
Ciatrick Fason= Mario Fannin
Drafted by LS2; rostered correctly
Derek Devine= Noel Devine
Drafted by Thrifty; rostered correctly
Darnell Sanders= Wesley Saunders
Drafted by Awal; rostered incorrectly; fixed
D.J. Ware= D.J. Williams
Not applicable. DJ Williams found in system. Drafted by IAG and correctly rostered.

Noel Devine and Wesley Saunders (entered as "Weslye") are both in Flea's system. Spann (Friehauf) and Fannin (Hill) are now entered correctly.
Derrick Locke, drafted by Awal, is Derrick Law
DeAndre Brown, drafted by Lung, is Jarrett Brown
Graig Cooper, drafted by Thrifty, is in Flea's system.
I'll have to get a look again, but I couldn't find a Cameron Kenney, either in Flea or on the Temporary Replacement List in this thread.
Damien Berry, drafted by Awal, is Damien Anderson.
LS2 has too many players and won't let me add Terrance Tolliver, who is in Flea's system.

DeAndre Brown's placeholder, along with Noel Devine and Craig Cooper, were cut recently. Saunders, Spann, Fannin, Locke, Berry and Tolliver are all rostered in Flea, not their placeholders.

Also, the following teams need to make cuts to bring their roster to the league-mandated maximum-
Lone Star State- must cut 4
The Show- must cut 5 (4 plus another so Jacquizz Rodgers can be added)

I can understand the desire to not cut any more to watch preseason games, but it's only fair, since all the other teams followed the rules. I think it's only fair that each owner make their cuts, rather than someone else.

My problem with the pre-waiver we used is two-fold-
1) If a player suddenly was the hot add, only that owner OTC would have a shot at him. The other aspect of this was they wouldn't have to throw blind-bid bucks at him. In 2 separate leagues, I used 40 BBB to secure an unowned player in this league. Overkill? Perhaps, but I wanted to make certain. Using this pre-waiver system would have allowed me to get him without paying the BBB price.

2) The rules say a team is forever passed if they pass once or allow the clock to expire. While that certainly seemed logical if a team had no intention to add players, the side-affects can be bad. For instance, if there's suddenly a hot waiver add everyone wants, it can come down to just two owners while everyone else (the passers and the clock-expirers) is forced to watch.

I think the ideal is go with the standard waiver wire once the preseason starts. We can use this Pre-Waiver system again (with amendments as requested), it just should end before the preseason games start and unknown depth guys suddenly have tangible value.


Finally, LS2, I sympathize with your situation. I can imagine we'd play this differently if we weren't discussing end-of-the-roster guys. In fact, I think this thing became too much "every man for himself", as I described above. If news broke while I was OTC, all the other teams would be screwed. We need a more equitable system. This wasn't. To me, regular waivers should start once the preseason starts- game performances and injuries can create sudden waiver gems that only one team has a chance at.

Oh, and my Android phone laughs at your Iphone.


Couldn't agree more! We tried something new and there were some wrinkles as you point out - we learned from it and won't make the same mistake next season.

;-D ;-D
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Re: League Jibber Jabber

Postby Kareighuis » Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:43 am

Updates-

1- As agreed to here, ST's TDs now go to offensive players and no longer to defenses.

2- As noted before, rosters needed to be reduced to their standard 30-man. Over two weeks ago, the need to cut-down
was noted here- "Rosters were temporarily expanded to 34. They will be returned to the standard 30 limit for the 1st game of preseason, Thursday, August 11th, 7:30pm US eastern. Please make any cuts (or trades) necessary in time for kickoff of those 1st games."

The reason for expanded rosters was noted here- "The roster expansion was meant for the actual real rookie draft, so teams could make trades and draft players without being hamstrung by shorter rosters."

A week later, a reminder was posted here- "Remember, cut-down date (to get to standard roster size of 30) is start of first game of preseason, which is in a few days."

Nearly a week after that, another reminder was posted- "Please remember to cut down your roster to the 30 spot limit. Did a quick count and saw 2 rosters over."

A few days ago, noted 2 teams needed to make cuts- "the following teams need to make cuts to bring their roster to the league-mandated maximum". In that post, I noted, "I think it's only fair that each owner make their cuts, rather than someone else." One team did cut-down promptly. The other has not.

I sent a PM to that last team two days ago. In it, I noted that, "since allowing one team to have extra players gives them a competitive advantage over the rest of the league, the roster should be brought in line by gametime of the 1st game of the 2nd week of preseason. That's Thursday at 7:30 pm eastern time." The PM hasn't been read yet.

Following through, I removed players that seemed reasonable cuts and reduced available roster slots league-wide to 30.
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Re: League Jibber Jabber

Postby aaawall91 » Sat Aug 20, 2011 5:01 pm

Can we put in waiver claims now?
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Re: League Jibber Jabber

Postby The Lung » Fri Aug 26, 2011 9:53 pm

aaawall91 wrote:Can we put in waiver claims now?


It looks like people already did!

Did I miss the official announcement somewhere that we were opening up the waiver wire to bid$? :-?
(~);}

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(~);}
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