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QB Rankings (for research)

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Re: QB Rankings (for research)

Postby brdmaverick » Tue Apr 28, 2009 5:25 pm

mattb47 wrote:I don't think they'll stick Stafford in...they'll remember too well how Joey Harrington turned out after throwing him into the fire too early. For every Matt Ryan and works out well, there are 10 others who are like Alex Smith, Joey Harrington, etc.



okay, well, replace Stafford with Culpepper if you wish, the choice is yours
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Re: QB Rankings (for research)

Postby Sex Panther » Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:27 pm

brdmaverick wrote:
Sex Panther wrote:Are you talking strictly from a fantasy perspective?

For example, Aaron Rogers could very well put up better numbers than Big Ben, but I am of the opinion that Big Ben is a superior quarterback on a much better team. If I were a NFL GM, and given the choice, I would much rather build my team around Big Ben. As a fantasy GM, I would rather have Rogers.



good question, but no, this is NOT based on fantasy football. Thanks for asking so that I could clear that up.

Think of it this way.

You are the GM of an expansion team that will only be in existence for 1 year (2009). You can choose the quarterback from any team. How would your rankings look of these qb's?


Going off of the premise of 1 year (2009) and 1 year only, and assuming everybody is 100% healthy, trying to win now and only now, off the top of my head, I would rank them like this (or pretty close)...

1. P. Manning
2. T. Brady
3. B. Roethlisberger
4. K. Warner
5. D. Brees
6. D. McNabb
7. C. Palmer
8. J. Cutler
9. P. Rivers
10. T. Romo
11. E. Manning
12. M. Hasselbeck
13. M. Ryan
14. A. Rogers
15. M. Schaub
16. J. Delhomme
17. M. Cassel
18. M. Bulger
19. C. Pennington
20. K. Collins
21. J. Flacco
22. J. Campbell
23. D. Garrard
24. T. Edwards
25. K. Orton
26. S. Rosenfels
27. B. Leftwich
28. S. Hill
29. J. Russell
30. B. Quinn
31. M. Stafford
32. M. Sanchez

Now, keep in mind these rankings are based solely off of who I would want to be lading my fictional team in it's 1 and only season in the NFL, this only pretains to the 2009 season - this becomes a very different list if you start factoring in age, injury, actual team, schedules, etc...
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Re: QB Rankings (for research)

Postby brdmaverick » Tue Apr 28, 2009 9:12 pm

Thanks Sex Panther, basing the rankings off of 1 AND ONLY 1 year is exactly what I wanted for this survey. For instance, even if you think that Matt Stafford will be the next Joe Montana, I only care how you think he will do for this upcoming season. Of course if you were starting an actual franchise you would want Stafford over Warner at this point, but for the purposes of this poll, I think most of us would want Warner over Stafford if we needed a QB for this season and ONLY this season.

Thanks, that would be awesome if someone else wanted to give their rankings. It's not as daunting of a task as it first seems. Just fill in the clear cut favorites, then the clear cut bottom dwellars, and the rest will just sort of fill themselves in.

Thanks to those who have already participated.
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Re: QB Rankings (for research)

Postby 011472 » Tue Apr 28, 2009 9:42 pm

Peyton Manning
Brees
Brady
Roethlisberger
Warner
Rivers
Romo
Palmer
Cutler
Ryan
Schaub
McNabb
Rodgers
Eli Manning
Hasselbeck
Flacco
Delhomme
Campbell
Bulger
Pennington
Garrard
Edwards
Hill
Orton
Cassell
Collins
Rosenfels
Russell
Leftwich
Quinn
Sanchez
Stafford
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Re: QB Rankings (for research)

Postby glackk » Wed Apr 29, 2009 4:34 am

Quick and dirty list...

1. Colts Peyton Manning
2. Pats Tom Brady
3. Saints Drew Brees
4. Steelers Ben Roethlisberger
5. Cardinals Kurt Warner

6. Eagles Donovan McNabb
7. Texans Matt Schaub
8. Cowboys Tony Romo
9. Bears Jay Cutler
10. Chargers Philip Rivers

11. Bengals Carson Palmer
12. Packers Aaron Rodgers
13. Seahawks Matt Hasselbeck
14. Falcons Matt Ryan
15. Giants Eli Manning

16. Vikings Sage Rosenfels
17. Panthers Jake Delhomme
18. Titans Kerry Collins
19. Jaguars David Garrard
20.Broncos Kyle Orton

21. Chiefs Matt Cassel
22. Redskins Jason Campbell
23. Ravens Joe Flacco
24. 49ers Shaun Hill
25. Dolphins Chad Pennington

26. Bills Trent Edwards
27. Rams Marc Bulger
28. Jets Mark Sanchez
29. Browns Brady Quinn
30. Raiders JaMarcus Russell

31. Buccaneers Byron Leftwich
32. Lions Matt Stafford
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Re: QB Rankings (for research)

Postby Wenchtamer » Wed Apr 29, 2009 6:59 am

1. P. Manning
2. Brady
3. Brees
4. Warner
5. McNabb
6. Rivers
7. Roethlisberger
8. Romo
9. Cutler
10. Palmer
11. Rodgers
12. Ryan
13. Schaub
14. Hasselbeck
15. E. Manning
16. Garrard
17. Delhomme
18. Cassel
19. Collins
20. Orton
21. Flacco
22. Campbell
23. Pennington
24. Rosenfels
25. Bulger
26. Edwards
27. Leftwich
28. Russell
29. Quinn
30. Hill
31. Sanchez
32. Stafford
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Re: QB Rankings (for research)

Postby Kensat30 » Wed Apr 29, 2009 3:10 pm

This thread is kind of confusing.

You're looking at QB rankings based on ability right? But you're taking that ability and placing it in a bubble that doesn't include the surrounding talent on their team or the system they are playing in? And you are ranking the ratings based only on one year? Huh? Why would you rank the QBs without factoring in the entire passing offense of the team they play on?


How can you judge the talent of QB accurately for a one year period without looking at the system they are currently in and the talent surrounding them? I could argue that Jay Cutler is one of the 10 best QBs in the NFL, but going into a new system his value in 2009 is most certainly not top10 at his position. Experience and surrounding talent matter just as much as the talent of the QB. We see in New England that Randy Moss and Wes Welker are the difference between 25 TDs and 50 TDs. We see in New Orleans that the systems means 5000 yards instead of 3500 for Drew Brees.

Should we look at Jay Cutler the player and what he could be or what he is this year? I think looking at talent in a bubble is only useful on a longer time horizon when situational issues start to become unpredictable. And what value does this exercise have? If you want it to be one of those "if you were a GM who would you draft" type deals that's fine. But I think ignoring situation, system, surrounding talent, etc. is impossible if you want to get results that actually mean something especially on a one year time horizon.
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Re: QB Rankings (for research)

Postby mattb47 » Wed Apr 29, 2009 3:41 pm

I agree...it seems what you're asking for is us to evaluate equally QBs that are in completely unequal situations and schemes. Basically we are needing to judge how good different players are with different supporting casts, schemes, offensive lines, opposition, etc and it's reasonably impossible unless we're judging more off of having the situation be included in that evaluation.

I mean how many QBs would have MUCH better numbers throwing to Randy Moss and Wes Welker? Or Larry Fitzgerald and Anquan Boldin? I mean Randy Moss made Daunte Culpepper look like a stud, even Gus Frerotte at times. I'm also curious as to exactly what you're after here.
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Re: QB Rankings (for research)

Postby DemonDeacon » Wed Apr 29, 2009 4:19 pm

Its tough, but heres how i see it

1. Pats Tom Brady
2. Colts Peyton Manning
3. Steelers Big Ben
4. Saints Drew Brees
5. Cardinals Kurt Warner

6. Eagles Donovan McNabb
7. Packers Aaron Rodgers
8. Cowboys Tony Romo
9. Bears Jay Cutler
10. Chargers Philip Rivers

11. Bengals Carson Palmer
12. Texans Matt Schaub
13. Seahawks Matt Hasselbeck
14. Falcons Matt Ryan
15. Giants Eli Manning

16. Vikings Sage Rosenfels
17. Panthers Jake Delhomme
18. Titans Kerry Collins
19. Jaguars David Garrard
20.Broncos Kyle Orton

21. Chiefs Matt Cassel
22. Redskins Jason Campbell
23. Ravens Joe Flacco
24. 49ers Shaun Hill
25. Dolphins Chad Pennington

26. Bills Trent Edwards
27. Rams Marc Bulger
28. Jets Mark Sanchez
29. Browns Brady Quinn
30. Raiders JaMarcus Russell

31. Buccaneers Byron Leftwich
32. Lions Culpepper
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Re: QB Rankings (for research)

Postby glackk » Wed Apr 29, 2009 7:01 pm

mattb47 wrote:I agree...it seems what you're asking for is us to evaluate equally QBs that are in completely unequal situations and schemes. Basically we are needing to judge how good different players are with different supporting casts, schemes, offensive lines, opposition, etc and it's reasonably impossible unless we're judging more off of having the situation be included in that evaluation.

I mean how many QBs would have MUCH better numbers throwing to Randy Moss and Wes Welker? Or Larry Fitzgerald and Anquan Boldin? I mean Randy Moss made Daunte Culpepper look like a stud, even Gus Frerotte at times. I'm also curious as to exactly what you're after here.


From my understanding, he was asking the "if you were a GM who would you draft" question that kenstat phrased. IOW, who would you want to build your real NFL team around if you could draft a complete team for this one year (or the opposite, who would you not want to face if someone else was drafting a complete team). That's how I compiled my list, anyway.

Granted, if you wanted to build a wildcat-style offense, then someone like McNabb or Russell would be ranked higher.
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