1.01 for Colston?

[Hank_Scorpio]

I'd take Moreno over Wells. Offer 1.8 for Colston, maybe even 1.8 and 2.whatever. Just keep that 1.1 pick for a stub RB that you know will put up numbers for you. Dever will be running the ball and Orton likes to dump passes off to his RBs.

I would not have too much faith in Moreno. I like him as a player, but I dont like the Broncos. They have a history of RBBC, and so does McDaniels as the Pats' OC. They signed LaMont Jordan and Buckhalter as free agents ans will be under pressure to use them. And then there's still Peyton Hillis and Ryan Torain as leftovers from last year's Denver RBBC. Too many RB's in that mix.

It's hard to tell what Orton will "like to do". He's with a new team with possibly a new philosophy. Orton has two WRs in Marshall and Royal that are wayyyyyyy better than anybody he played with in Chicago. So I wouldn't assume Moreno is going to catch lots of passes out of the backfield, either.

Beanie Wells is the obvious choice as the best RB in a Fantasy rookie draft. He has virtually no competition in the Cards' backfield (Hightower less than 3.0 yds per carry, Edge James released). Everyone forgets that Whisenhunt is calling the plays in Arizona now, and with Wells he has a bruising RB to pound the football with, which is what he loved to do in Pittsburgh with Jerome Bettis.

[mattb47]

I'd take Moreno over Wells. Offer 1.8 for Colston, maybe even 1.8 and 2.whatever. Just keep that 1.1 pick for a stub RB that you know will put up numbers for you. Dever will be running the ball and Orton likes to dump passes off to his RBs.

I would not have too much faith in Moreno. I like him as a player, but I dont like the Broncos. They have a history of RBBC, and so does McDaniels as the Pats' OC. They signed LaMont Jordan and Buckhalter as free agents ans will be under pressure to use them. And then there's still Peyton Hillis and Ryan Torain as leftovers from last year's Denver RBBC. Too many RB's in that mix.

It's hard to tell what Orton will "like to do". He's with a new team with possibly a new philosophy. Orton has two WRs in Marshall and Royal that are wayyyyyyy better than anybody he played with in Chicago. So I wouldn't assume Moreno is going to catch lots of passes out of the backfield, either.

Beanie Wells is the obvious choice as the best RB in a Fantasy rookie draft. He has virtually no competition in the Cards' backfield (Hightower less than 3.0 yds per carry, Edge James released). Everyone forgets that Whisenhunt is calling the plays in Arizona now, and with Wells he has a bruising RB to pound the football with, which is what he loved to do in Pittsburgh with Jerome Bettis.

You are assuming WAY too much as far as Moreno and the Denver running game is concerned. One thing that you failed to consider in your post is that none of the RBs in NE last season or Denver last season or this season have the talent of a RB like Moreno does. He is an excellent runner and you're kidding yourself if you think Denver would ignore all of their defensive concerns to draft a RB with that first pick that they were planning to just use minimally.

This is somewhat speculation of my own...but I do think that McDaniels is going to want to give a face to this team after Cutler made his exit and is no longer the face of the franchise...he might be hoping Moreno is going to be that guy they build the franchise around in the mold of guys like LT, SA, ADP, etc. I think they'll use him plenty this season and it won't be an issue as far as playing time goes.

Wells just concerns me from a health standpoint...Arizona is not the ideal place for a RB just because they don't have the strongest offensive line and they have been consistently a pass oriented team largely because of their weak defense forcing them to air it out frequently. Consider that Warner is not going to play much longer and Wells will no longer have that elite passing game to take pressure off of him. Wells was not able to stay healthy consistently in college and to think that they'll throw a heavy workload on him from the start is somewhat of a question mark.

[bungle613]

I'd take Moreno over Wells. Offer 1.8 for Colston, maybe even 1.8 and 2.whatever. Just keep that 1.1 pick for a stub RB that you know will put up numbers for you. Dever will be running the ball and Orton likes to dump passes off to his RBs.

I would not have too much faith in Moreno. I like him as a player, but I dont like the Broncos. They have a history of RBBC, and so does McDaniels as the Pats' OC. They signed LaMont Jordan and Buckhalter as free agents ans will be under pressure to use them. And then there's still Peyton Hillis and Ryan Torain as leftovers from last year's Denver RBBC. Too many RB's in that mix.

It's hard to tell what Orton will "like to do". He's with a new team with possibly a new philosophy. Orton has two WRs in Marshall and Royal that are wayyyyyyy better than anybody he played with in Chicago. So I wouldn't assume Moreno is going to catch lots of passes out of the backfield, either.

Beanie Wells is the obvious choice as the best RB in a Fantasy rookie draft. He has virtually no competition in the Cards' backfield (Hightower less than 3.0 yds per carry, Edge James released). Everyone forgets that Whisenhunt is calling the plays in Arizona now, and with Wells he has a bruising RB to pound the football with, which is what he loved to do in Pittsburgh with Jerome Bettis.

You are assuming WAY too much as far as Moreno and the Denver running game is concerned. One thing that you failed to consider in your post is that none of the RBs in NE last season or Denver last season or this season have the talent of a RB like Moreno does. He is an excellent runner and you're kidding yourself if you think Denver would ignore all of their defensive concerns to draft a RB with that first pick that they were planning to just use minimally.

This is somewhat speculation of my own...but I do think that McDaniels is going to want to give a face to this team after Cutler made his exit and is no longer the face of the franchise...he might be hoping Moreno is going to be that guy they build the franchise around in the mold of guys like LT, SA, ADP, etc. I think they'll use him plenty this season and it won't be an issue as far as playing time goes.

Wells just concerns me from a health standpoint...Arizona is not the ideal place for a RB just because they don't have the strongest offensive line and they have been consistently a pass oriented team largely because of their weak defense forcing them to air it out frequently. Consider that Warner is not going to play much longer and Wells will no longer have that elite passing game to take pressure off of him. Wells was not able to stay healthy consistently in college and to think that they'll throw a heavy workload on him from the start is somewhat of a question mark.

Just a real quick note on Wells health. Whiile he was dinged up on several occasions nothing was overly serious. I believe he only missed 3 games and was very productive even playing hurt.

[LS2throwed]

Just a real quick note on Wells health. Whiile he was dinged up on several occasions nothing was overly serious. I believe he only missed 3 games and was very productive even playing hurt.

Yea but it's a huge concern for me with that top pick, just look at Addai's season last year, that reminds me of the typical Beanie Wells type of season for some reason, nagging injuries, coming in and out of games, always a hassle and teasing you with some nice game here and there...Wells was tearing up Texas in the Fiesta Bowl lat year, then he got hurt and couldn't finish? This is your last college game of your career, your team NEEDS to win this game, I want the back who is out there on one leg, one arm, whatever, gutting it out for his team.


Same story with USC game, huge game, he's nowhere to be found...Even with AD coming out, I remember him missing a streak of game but returning to play the bowl game well before he could have and playing well...Wells is going to battle little nagging injuries his entire career, especially in AZ because they are probably going to give him the rock 20 times a game, I have questions also on how he handles those nagging injuries, will he suit up and play or will he sit on the sideline and pout.


Moreno strikes me as a tough SOB who would play on one leg if he had to, that's the mentality I got from him, Wells for as big as he is seems soft for some reason...I cannot ignore his potential because at his best he's unstoppable, Jim Brown all over again, but it's more then just talent with him, he' a bigger risk/reward then Harvin for me.

[mattb47]

I agree completely LS2...that's the concern I have about Wells. Consistent nagging injuries in college with the level of players he was playing against doesn't instill loads of confidence when there are the best of the best college players in the NFL. Harder hits more frequently, longer season, tougher athletes, etc. For me it's one of those "red flags" for an NFL RB coming out of college.

[Hank_Scorpio]

You know who Wells reminds me of? Steve Slaton. Not that they have similar styles, but that in their senior year of college they both "played it safe", running nonchalantly at times and pulling themselves from games for realtively minor injuries.

Slaton went from 1st round possibility to a 3rd rounder, and look what he did for Houston.

Wells is in a great situation with a great offensive line and a passing game that will make defenses back off.

Both Slaton and Wells simply protected their financial interests in their senior year. It cost them draft position, but that's about it.

I think you'd have to be crazy to trust madman McDaniels with your Fantasy season in '09 by taking Moreno, with so many RB's in Denver.

I'll take Wells with nearly zero competition for carries and a coach (Whisenhunt) that has longed to run the football with authority like his Steelers did but hasn't had the personnel to do it. Wells is a solid #2 RB on my board, while I have Moreno as a RB3. Denver's gonna suck, and Moreno will unlikely see many carries in the 4th quarter in most games.

[mattb47]

That's quite the stretch to compare guys who have completely different builds and completely different running styles on something as obscure as you're trying to make as far as a connection goes. It has as much validity as saying that Vince Young will get involved with a dog fighting ring just because he reminds some people of Vick.

Time and again you see it when players get to the NFL...you take talent over situation when there's a close call like this...Wells might have a slightly better situation (although I'm not crazy fond of it for reasons I already stated) but as far as talent is concerned and health, there's no contest in my mind. You are buying in a bit too much into what other people say about McDaniels I think...he's not just going to do crazy offensive things all the time and do the wrong things there...he's an offensive minded coach so if there's one thing they'll probably do decent in Denver its on offense.

Just because Wisenhunt was in a PURE running team in Pittsburgh (back when he was there at least) and ran the ball does not mean that's always what he wants to do...he has the personnel to be a passing team and that's what they have been. Their defense adds to that as well since they always have to outscore teams but using his past in Pittsburgh as proof that he will use Wells to run a lot is another huge stretch. Also...since when does Arizona have a "great offensive line"? You mean that great offensive line that paved the way for the league's worst run offense? They averaged a whopping 3.5 ypc on the season...not all of that is the RBs either. You can put a decent RB behind a "great" offensive line and they will be solid...Denver in years past is proof of that. I'm sorry, but that's probably the most ridiculous argument you have used so far...and that's saying something.

[Hank_Scorpio]

That's quite the stretch to compare guys who have completely different builds and completely different running styles on something as obscure as you're trying to make as far as a connection goes. It has as much validity as saying that Vince Young will get involved with a dog fighting ring just because he reminds some people of Vick.

Time and again you see it when players get to the NFL...you take talent over situation when there's a close call like this...Wells might have a slightly better situation (although I'm not crazy fond of it for reasons I already stated) but as far as talent is concerned and health, there's no contest in my mind. You are buying in a bit too much into what other people say about McDaniels I think...he's not just going to do crazy offensive things all the time and do the wrong things there...he's an offensive minded coach so if there's one thing they'll probably do decent in Denver its on offense.

Just because Wisenhunt was in a PURE running team in Pittsburgh (back when he was there at least) and ran the ball does not mean that's always what he wants to do...he has the personnel to be a passing team and that's what they have been. Their defense adds to that as well since they always have to outscore teams but using his past in Pittsburgh as proof that he will use Wells to run a lot is another huge stretch. Also...since when does Arizona have a "great offensive line"? You mean that great offensive line that paved the way for the league's worst run offense? They averaged a whopping 3.5 ypc on the season...not all of that is the RBs either. You can put a decent RB behind a "great" offensive line and they will be solid...Denver in years past is proof of that. I'm sorry, but that's probably the most ridiculous argument you have used so far...and that's saying something.

I never said Wells and Slaton were similar physically. I'm just making the comparison that Beanie 'shut himself down' to insure his financial future in the NFL. So I don't think any supposed injury risk is any reason to downgrade him.

I think assessing the situation a RB goes to is as important as figuring out his talent level. (Which is a crapshoot anyway, as high draft picks like Cedric Benson and Curtis Enis can attest). I'm really not sure why so many people love Knowshon Moreno so much, considering the criticsm of Matthew Stafford. Both players played well for Georgia but it only seems to be Stafford that is downgraded because Georgia was an "underachieving" team. Moreno seems to get a pass in that regard.

I really don't trust Josh McDaniels and all the RB's in Denver, quite frankly. I think their season will be a mess, and Moreno's stats will suffer for it. Since Clinton Portis (who is pretty good on his own and is not a "system" RB) the Broncos haven't had a viable Fantasy RB.

McDaniels has stubbornly seemed to have an agenda to do everything opposite from Mike Shanahan. He has basically run Jay Cutler out of town, seems to be dumping Shanahan's RB projects (Selvin Young), and uses a first-round pick on a RB, something Shanny never did.

Much like your criticism of Arizona's offense being dependent on the pass, I think so will Denver. That defense is horrible, and Brian Dawkins is not gonna save it on his own. The Broncos will trail in many games next year, and they'll have to air out the ball in the second half to try and catch up. Moreno will suffer for it, mark my words.

I'll remember to bump this thread next season so everyone can see whose advice is correct. I think you're being quite foolish putting so much faith in the Broncos and McDaniels.

Moreno's still a solid pick in rookie drafts, but I still put Wells ahead of him. In fact, I might bump Shonn Greene ahead of Moreno should Thomas Jones get the axe.

[LS2throwed]

I never said Wells and Slaton were similar physically. I'm just making the comparison that Beanie 'shut himself down' to insure his financial future in the NFL. So I don't think any supposed injury risk is any reason to downgrade him.

How do you know that, and how would you know? We don't know if that's what happened with Slaton, and we certainly don't know that's what happened with Wells.


If you shut yourself down to ensure your financial future in the NFL, that says alot about what type of RB you are, that you quit on your teammates because you wanted to make some money...It's a pretty silly assumption, and I don't know what your basing it off of honestly.

[Indibuck]

I never said Wells and Slaton were similar physically. I'm just making the comparison that Beanie 'shut himself down' to insure his financial future in the NFL. So I don't think any supposed injury risk is any reason to downgrade him.

From someone who watched every single game of Beanie's career....

1. Beanie left after his junior year, not his senior year.

2. Beanie DID NOT "shut himself down" in 2008. Why would he or any other RB (or elite pro prospect for that matter) "shut it down" when he is looking to make an impression on NFL scouting departments? Beanie "shut it down" by not returning for his senior year and taking the $$$, which I would advise any elite college RB to do.

I acknowledge that there are question marks for Wells. Will he hold up to the pounding in the NFL? Will Wisenhunt allow Beanie to carry the ball 20 times a game? Wells is an old-school back, in that he needs a number of carries to find his groove and wear down the defense. Will that happen in AZ? Between Fitz, Boldin, Breaston, and Wells, there are a lot of "mouths to feed" on offense. Will the OL be good enough to open holes for Wells?

BUT

He has the highest upside of any back in the draft -- he is arguably as talented a prospect as there has been since AP. And in an offense like AZ, he should have a considerable amount of red zone opportunities. And no, Hightower will not be the designated goal line back over Wells.


I will say this... I think there have been better years to have the 1.1 rookie pick. There are a lot of question marks with EVERY top rookie. Why wouldn't you go with the guy that gives you the greatest upside?