Flex Spots - Fantasy Football Poison - Fantasy Football Cafe 2014 Fantasy Football Cafe


Return to Article Discussions

Flex Spots - Fantasy Football Poison

Moderators: daullaz, Football Moderators

Flex Spots - Fantasy Football Poison

Postby WebHamster » Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:49 am

This thread contains comments on Michael Gogel's Article "Flex Spots - Fantasy Football Poison", which was posted in the Cafe's Articles section on June 9, 2009. The full article can be read here.
WebHamster
Service Robot
Service Robot

User avatar
Pick 3 ChampionCafe Blackjack Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 10092
(Past Year: 204)
Joined: 15 Jan 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Flex Spots - Fantasy Football Poison

Postby mattUTD20 » Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:22 pm

Now I know what some of you are saying, “It depends on the scoring structure of the league, etc.” Do me a favor. If you’re in a league where the flex spots are sought after and counteract every one of my points made above, find a new league. It’s that simple. Because you aren’t playing real fantasy football, you’re playing a watered down version where everybody gets a prize at the end and you all shake hands and head to the snack stand after the game for a free Capri-Sun and an orange wedge.


Nice :-D ;-D
"Maurice Jones-Drew, below the waist, is incredible." Mike Mayock

Cafe Leagues

Eat Cheese Dynasty (Owner: 2 year) CuYr: 2 PvYr: 1
Ball Breakers Keeper (Owner: 2 year) CuYr: 3 PvYr: 2
4th and Goal Dynasty (Owner: 2 year) CuYr: 2 PvYr: 9
mattUTD20
Head Coach
Head Coach

User avatar
Cafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterCafe MusketeerLucky Ladders ChampionCafe Blackjack Weekly Winner
Posts: 1409
Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Home Cafe: Football

Re: Flex Spots - Fantasy Football Poison

Postby The Lung » Tue Jun 09, 2009 2:02 pm

Flex Spots Rarely Flex: In most cases, a flex spot will either be a RB/WR or sometimes a WR/TE. Now think about this logically. If you have a second tier starting running back and a first tier 2nd or 3rd option receiver; who are you going to start 90% of the time? If you picked the WR, you’re officially an idiot. Most people with any sense pick the RB and with good reason.


I guess that I and most everyone else I play with are officially idiots then. Image

I'm in several 1 point-per-reception leagues where we can start 4 WRs and 2 RBs, or 3 WRs and 3 RBs. I would say that not a majority of time, but quite often, managers in these leagues start a 4th WR instead of a 3rd RB. In a PPR league, when you look at the math, it just pays off to start that 4th WR, especially if he is a PPR dynamo like Wes Welker, Derrick Mason, Hines Ward, etc. And these are not Yahoo public leagues with newbies - these are dynasty leagues comprised of hard core & expert fantasy football managers who have been playing fantasy football for over a decade.

I'm not sure I agree with many of the other points made either. Roster vultures and killing the waiver wire are directly proportional to bench size. A league that has 10 bench spots vs. 6 bench spots has a much bigger effect on what you're talking about. One flex spot hardly makes a difference.

Thanks for the article and if you've got one thing, it's conviction. But I just don't agree with the premise of the article of flex spots as poison. And I also don't think referring to your readers and fellow fantasy football enthusiasts as "idiots" is really necessary. :-t
(~);}

Image

(~);}
The Lung
Moderator
Moderator

User avatar
ModeratorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeMatchup Meltdown SurvivorCafe Blackjack Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 9850
(Past Year: 61)
Joined: 2 Jan 2004
Home Cafe: Football
Location: Disgusted with Mocha Bean

Re: Flex Spots - Fantasy Football Poison

Postby portisfan24 » Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:09 pm

Well I have leagues with flex spots and leagues without them, and I can't say I've noticed many of the differences you claim are there. As Lung mentioned, bench size has more to do with the quality of the waiver wire than having a flex spot. If anything I think it rewards the more active, intelligent owners. By adding another starting position, the quality of a teams bench comes into play more. Nothing is more annoying than losing to Brady, Moss and 6 absolute plugs. With more starting positions, this is less likely to happen.

I suppose its a matter of preference, but you shouldn't assume that people who like flex spots are idiots.
Image
portisfan24
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterInnovative MemberCafe MusketeerMatchup Meltdown SurvivorCafe Blackjack Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 6196
Joined: 4 May 2004
Home Cafe: Football
Location: Canada

Re: Flex Spots - Fantasy Football Poison

Postby daullaz » Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:39 pm

The Lung wrote:
Flex Spots Rarely Flex: In most cases, a flex spot will either be a RB/WR or sometimes a WR/TE. Now think about this logically. If you have a second tier starting running back and a first tier 2nd or 3rd option receiver; who are you going to start 90% of the time? If you picked the WR, you’re officially an idiot. Most people with any sense pick the RB and with good reason.


I guess that I and most everyone else I play with are officially idiots then. Image

I'm in several 1 point-per-reception leagues where we can start 4 WRs and 2 RBs, or 3 WRs and 3 RBs. I would say that not a majority of time, but quite often, managers in these leagues start a 4th WR instead of a 3rd RB. In a PPR league, when you look at the math, it just pays off to start that 4th WR, especially if he is a PPR dynamo like Wes Welker, Derrick Mason, Hines Ward, etc. And these are not Yahoo public leagues with newbies - these are dynasty leagues comprised of hard core & expert fantasy football managers who have been playing fantasy football for over a decade.

I'm not sure I agree with many of the other points made either. Roster vultures and killing the waiver wire are directly proportional to bench size. A league that has 10 bench spots vs. 6 bench spots has a much bigger effect on what you're talking about. One flex spot hardly makes a difference.

Thanks for the article and if you've got one thing, it's conviction. But I just don't agree with the premise of the article of flex spots as poison. And I also don't think referring to your readers and fellow fantasy football enthusiasts as "idiots" is really necessary. :-t


I was hoping that this article would garner a potentially well-thought out rebuttal, which is what this post is shading towards. Care to write a retort for the front page?
Image
Image
daullaz
Head Scribe
Head Scribe

User avatar
EditorCafeholicCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterCafe SpotterCafe MusketeerMatchup Meltdown ChampionPick 3 Weekly WinnerSweet 16 SurvivorCafe Blackjack Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 3107
(Past Year: 38)
Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: The Cave

Re: Flex Spots - Fantasy Football Poison

Postby Kareighuis » Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:47 am

The Lung wrote:Thanks for the article and if you've got one thing, it's conviction. But I just don't agree with the premise of the article of flex spots as poison. And I also don't think referring to your readers and fellow fantasy football enthusiasts as "idiots" is really necessary. :-t


I agree with Lung completely. Last year, I had a PPR league with 2RB, 2WR and 2 WR/RB flexes. My core WRs and RBs- SJax, Chris Johnson, DAW, J Stewart, Boldin, Welker, Cotch and VJax. As the season progressed, and players got injured or cooled off, the flex options gave me room to compete. Oftentimes, Stewart was on my bench (since he was a part-timer who got very few receptions) for Cotchery's, VJax's and Mark Bradley's hot streaks.

My league was a redraft. In a dynasty, like Lung's, it brings up the additional dimension someone once said (Bungle?)- 60% of such leagues is about identifying/acquiring talent. Stow them away for some time, if you have to. Choice, Turner, Michael Bush and Ryan Grant owners are or must have been happy to wait. To me, much of the thrill of a dynasty league is grabbing a no-name and parking him.
Kareighuis
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeCafe Musketeer
Posts: 3627
(Past Year: 2)
Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Home Cafe: Football

Re: Flex Spots - Fantasy Football Poison

Postby Dan Lambskin » Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:29 am

i also disagree quite a bit with the article

maybe in a 10 team league will you see it be a RB 90% of the time, even then with bye weeks you'll see WR's started from time to time. even more in 12+ team leagues. add in PPR as some have said and it makes a Flex WR all the more intriguing

i play in a 12 team PPR Dynasty that starts 2-3 RB, 3-4 WR and 1 TE. i actually petitioned to allow a lineup of 2 RB, 3 WR and 2 TE (or 3 RB, 2 WR, 2 TE)...there were situations last year where based on bye weeks/injury i'd have rather started 2 TE than a 3rd RB or 4th WR
Dan Lambskin
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
EditorFantasy ExpertCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeSurvival Of The Fittest WinnerPick 3 Weekly WinnerMatchup Meltdown SurvivorCafe Blackjack Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly WinnerTrivia Time Trial Monthly Winner
Posts: 7054
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: being a fan of the worst franchise in the NFL

Re: Flex Spots - Fantasy Football Poison

Postby The Lung » Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:14 am

Dan Lambskin wrote:i play in a 12 team PPR Dynasty that starts 2-3 RB, 3-4 WR and 1 TE. i actually petitioned to allow a lineup of 2 RB, 3 WR and 2 TE (or 3 RB, 2 WR, 2 TE)...there were situations last year where based on bye weeks/injury i'd have rather started 2 TE than a 3rd RB or 4th WR


Excellent point, Dan. The fact that managers often start not just another WR in the flex spot but actually a second tight end over a 3rd RB shows just how faulty the math (and logic) is that managers who don't start a 3rd RB in the flex spot are "idiots."
(~);}

Image

(~);}
The Lung
Moderator
Moderator

User avatar
ModeratorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeMatchup Meltdown SurvivorCafe Blackjack Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 9850
(Past Year: 61)
Joined: 2 Jan 2004
Home Cafe: Football
Location: Disgusted with Mocha Bean

Re: Flex Spots - Fantasy Football Poison

Postby Kilroy » Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:21 pm

I gotta agree with the others. Your conviction I can respect (don't agree, well, at all, but I can respect it), but calling out a large segment of the folks you want to read your article doesn't strike me as a real good way to encourage them to read your next one.
Image

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." -- Voltaire
Kilroy
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Fantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerGraphics ExpertMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeCafe Musketeer
Posts: 13587
Joined: 6 Oct 2004
Home Cafe: Football
Location: Making My List and Checking It Twice...

Re: Flex Spots - Fantasy Football Poison

Postby pirater4u » Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:35 am

You all have valid points and I admit I didn't take Dynasty and Hardcore Keeper leagues into account. My thoughts were more about leagues that were just starting up and trying to gain momentum. It was short-sighted. My bad. I will try and be more specific. Appreciate the constructive criticism.

Just hope you don't take my generalities too personally.

I enjoy the conversation, however, and invite you to keep commenting.... warts and all!
"Now...I have...a machine gun...Ho...Ho...Ho." - Hans Gruber
pirater4u
Cheerleader
Cheerleader

User avatar
Cafe Writer
Posts: 20
Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Home Cafe: Football

Next

Return to Article Discussions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Forums Articles & Tips Start & Sit Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Get Ready...
The 2014 NFL season kicks off in 11:06 hours
(and 35 days)
2014 NFL Schedule


  • Fantasy Football
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact