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Ray Rice, why all the love?

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Re: Ray Rice, why all the love?

Postby Rat Pack » Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:39 am

That's nice Azrael. You ask the guy to provide evidence of his statement, he does so, then you just dismiss it. I love the way people pick and choose what information is relevant based on whether or not it supports their own opinion.
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Re: Ray Rice, why all the love?

Postby mattUTD20 » Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:46 am

What difference does it make if its old news? You said he hasn't missed voluntary workouts and that is clearly false. He had surgery in early May and had been showing up to voluntary workouts but not practicing. He didn't show up at all in late May. So he really hasn't been doing much of anything until June. Unless Harbaugh really likes his so called feature back to be a sideline cheerleader every offseason. His poor offseason conditioning is documented. Do you want Harbaugh to come out and say "I don't like Willis McGahee and we would cut him if it wasn't for the cap hit."? Cmon now. You are asking for "reports" but refuse to acknowledge anything beat writers say. I am not sure why their first hand experiences and knowledge of the situation account for nothing.

I don't know what there is to like about McGahee. If he stays healthy, he's probably headed to an even split with Rice. Rice will be in on third downs. And McClain might still be the man at the goal line. So that gives him what, around 200 carries if he's lucky, a handful of receptions, and a couple of scores? He's averaged 4.0 YPC or less every year he's been in the league except one (4.1 YPC). That puts him around 800 yards. Rice offers more upside because of McGahees injury risk and he's a superior receiver. But hey, someone's gotta take McGahee, so he's all yours.
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Re: Ray Rice, why all the love?

Postby massraider » Wed Jul 22, 2009 1:03 pm

mattUTD20 wrote:
I don't know what there is to like about McGahee. If he stays healthy, he's probably headed to an even split with Rice. Rice will be in on third downs. And McClain might still be the man at the goal line. So that gives him what, around 200 carries if he's lucky, a handful of receptions, and a couple of scores? He's averaged 4.0 YPC or less every year he's been in the league except one (4.1 YPC). That puts him around 800 yards. Rice offers more upside because of McGahees injury risk and he's a superior receiver. But hey, someone's gotta take McGahee, so he's all yours.


Getting back to Rice, the above is why I am sure he won't wind up on my teams.

For where Rice is going, you need him, at some point, to be the man in order for the pick to be worth it. And he has two hurdles to overcome, McGahee AND McClain. McClain is still going to get touches, IMO, and as long as he's healthy, so will McGahee.
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Re: Ray Rice, why all the love?

Postby Stelly » Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:59 pm

Unless this situation gets cleared up in training camp, I don't want any of these guys being any more than an RB4 on my team this season. To much risk for any of these guys, especially if it's a three-headed monster like last season. You'll never knows who's going to get what carries when.

Unless I can get Rice as an RB4 in a keeper league, I'm staying away from any Baltimore RB.
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Re: Ray Rice, why all the love?

Postby GOD » Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:05 pm

This guy will be the next MJD! But won't get the goaline carries, because of Mcclain. But if ur in a ppr get Rice NOW!!!
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Re: Ray Rice, why all the love?

Postby Azrael » Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:24 pm

mattUTD20 wrote:What difference does it make if its old news? You said he hasn't missed voluntary workouts and that is clearly false. He had surgery in early May and had been showing up to voluntary workouts but not practicing. He didn't show up at all in late May. So he really hasn't been doing much of anything until June. Unless Harbaugh really likes his so called feature back to be a sideline cheerleader every offseason. His poor offseason conditioning is documented. Do you want Harbaugh to come out and say "I don't like Willis McGahee and we would cut him if it wasn't for the cap hit."? Cmon now. You are asking for "reports" but refuse to acknowledge anything beat writers say. I am not sure why their first hand experiences and knowledge of the situation account for nothing.

I don't know what there is to like about McGahee. If he stays healthy, he's probably headed to an even split with Rice. Rice will be in on third downs. And McClain might still be the man at the goal line. So that gives him what, around 200 carries if he's lucky, a handful of receptions, and a couple of scores? He's averaged 4.0 YPC or less every year he's been in the league except one (4.1 YPC). That puts him around 800 yards. Rice offers more upside because of McGahees injury risk and he's a superior receiver. But hey, someone's gotta take McGahee, so he's all yours.


Ok, how about he hasn't missed workouts that he was physically able to attend. If a guy is in jail he's not attending workouts but I don't think it would be right to say he's "skipping" them. Same thing with surgery. My point was he's not skipping stuff he's healthy enough to get to. After resting from surgery, he's been at everything.

Now I knew that quote from Harbaugh existed but I also thought that that was the only thing an inference could be made from. I wanted to see if someone had other evidence of coaches making statements alluding to McGahee being disappointing to them. It's not substantial enough to make a sweeping generalization "by all accounts coaches hate McGahee". I mean, Rex Ryan made a statement this morning on NFL Radio that Leon Washington's carries needed to go up significantly and he would be a big part of the game plan. Does that mean I can jump to the conclusion "by all accounts Leon Washington should supplant Thomas Jones as the feature back"? No.

200 carries? I'll take that from an 11th round pick.
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Re: Ray Rice, why all the love?

Postby Rat Pack » Wed Jul 22, 2009 5:24 pm

"Willis McGahee says he's "100 percent" recovered from offseason knee and ankle surgeries, but anticipates entering training camp as a backup.

McGahee says "it's not how you start but how you finish," but it's also not likely that he'll get even a fighter's chance to beat out Ray Rice. The Ravens are intent on making Rice their every-down back, with Le'Ron McClain coming in for short-yardage situations and McGahee's usage likely declining sharply."
Source: Baltimore Sun

Here's a little more evidence of why there's so much love for ray rice, straight from the baltimore newspaper.

Here's one more from head coach John Harbaugh:

"People see him as a third-down back because of the success he had last year, but I don't think we have any question that he can be an every-down back."
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Re: Ray Rice, why all the love?

Postby mattb47 » Wed Jul 22, 2009 5:29 pm

We'll see...the media reports a lot of things and coaches say a lot of things in the off season...it doesn't necessarily mean what they are saying. This is staying as a pure RBBC in my eyes until I see otherwise or if we see that McGahee is still struggling injury wise or something...I think we'll see both of these guys this year working together and McClain will take the TDs which hurts both of their values.
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Re: Ray Rice, why all the love?

Postby Azrael » Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:20 pm

Rat Pack wrote:"Willis McGahee says he's "100 percent" recovered from offseason knee and ankle surgeries, but anticipates entering training camp as a backup.

McGahee says "it's not how you start but how you finish," but it's also not likely that he'll get even a fighter's chance to beat out Ray Rice. The Ravens are intent on making Rice their every-down back, with Le'Ron McClain coming in for short-yardage situations and McGahee's usage likely declining sharply."
Source: Baltimore Sun

Here's a little more evidence of why there's so much love for ray rice, straight from the baltimore newspaper.

Here's one more from head coach John Harbaugh:

"People see him as a third-down back because of the success he had last year, but I don't think we have any question that he can be an every-down back."


Ok most of this is good but the bold is what I hate about beat writers. "he won't get a chance...Ravens are intent on making Rice their every down back" These statements are based on what? What I'd like to see is something like "a source close to Ravens officials" before or after that bold statement to let me know that it is the team saying this and not just the writer making assumptions.
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Re: Ray Rice, why all the love?

Postby Bobbleheadrusty » Thu Jul 23, 2009 4:24 am

Azrael wrote:
Rat Pack wrote:"Willis McGahee says he's "100 percent" recovered from offseason knee and ankle surgeries, but anticipates entering training camp as a backup.

McGahee says "it's not how you start but how you finish," but it's also not likely that he'll get even a fighter's chance to beat out Ray Rice. The Ravens are intent on making Rice their every-down back, with Le'Ron McClain coming in for short-yardage situations and McGahee's usage likely declining sharply."
Source: Baltimore Sun

Here's a little more evidence of why there's so much love for ray rice, straight from the baltimore newspaper.

Here's one more from head coach John Harbaugh:

"People see him as a third-down back because of the success he had last year, but I don't think we have any question that he can be an every-down back."


Ok most of this is good but the bold is what I hate about beat writers. "he won't get a chance...Ravens are intent on making Rice their every down back" These statements are based on what? What I'd like to see is something like "a source close to Ravens officials" before or after that bold statement to let me know that it is the team saying this and not just the writer making assumptions.


For gods sake, beat writers don't just make this stuff up out of thin air (most of the time). The get their information from being out at practice. You will never get a coach to completely sell out a player on the record, but off the record they will talk to reporters, who also see whats going on..

Now, Im not a fan of the Sun, but they have a guy at the castle every day, so they may well know something.
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