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Better year in 09: Ochocinco or TJ Housh?

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Better year in 09: Ochocinco or TJ Housh?

Postby patricklin27 » Sat Jul 25, 2009 4:55 pm

I take Chad Ochocinco.
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Re: Better year in 09: Ochocinco or TJ Housh?

Postby Dawinner127 » Sat Jul 25, 2009 6:01 pm

COC is definitely going to bounce back from last year and be the top WR he was a few years ago.
A win next week and all is forgotten.
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Re: Better year in 09: Ochocinco or TJ Housh?

Postby moochman » Sat Jul 25, 2009 7:30 pm

In a PPR league, I think Housh will do better than COC. TJ is the perfect WR for Hasselbeck and the Seahacks. I could see him getting over 80 receptions easily, and he may even be looked to as more of a redzone threat in the absence of any better receivers.
COC has to deal with a Bengal O that needs Benson to not suck two years in a row, something he is unlikely to do, and Palmer has to show that his arm is fully recovered and he can stay healthy. Without having seen whether there is any of the old zip on his balls, its hard to say how well he will be able to throw to COC. And lastly, there is the COC himself that must be dealt with. How long has it been that he has been a happy, productive COC?
Housh is the safer pick to click.
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Re: Better year in 09: Ochocinco or TJ Housh?

Postby mattb47 » Sat Jul 25, 2009 7:41 pm

moochman wrote:In a PPR league, I think Housh will do better than COC. TJ is the perfect WR for Hasselbeck and the Seahacks. I could see him getting over 80 receptions easily, and he may even be looked to as more of a redzone threat in the absence of any better receivers.
COC has to deal with a Bengal O that needs Benson to not suck two years in a row, something he is unlikely to do, and Palmer has to show that his arm is fully recovered and he can stay healthy. Without having seen whether there is any of the old zip on his balls, its hard to say how well he will be able to throw to COC. And lastly, there is the COC himself that must be dealt with. How long has it been that he has been a happy, productive COC?
Housh is the safer pick to click.


Agree completely...another thing to consider is that Housh is much more likely to be consistent week in and week out even if he ends up with similar numbers as COC does...Chad has proven to be terribly inconsistent week to week even in his past few productive seasons and that's not something I would want to deal with. I don't trust Palmer...he's never been the same since that knee injury, I don't trust the Cincy offense, and I don't trust Chad...I think Chad has more risk without having much more upside which makes it very unlikely that I would even consider him over someone like Housh this year.
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Re: Better year in 09: Ochocinco or TJ Housh?

Postby fantasizing » Sun Jul 26, 2009 3:03 pm

mattb47 wrote:
moochman wrote:In a PPR league, I think Housh will do better than COC. TJ is the perfect WR for Hasselbeck and the Seahacks. I could see him getting over 80 receptions easily, and he may even be looked to as more of a redzone threat in the absence of any better receivers.
COC has to deal with a Bengal O that needs Benson to not suck two years in a row, something he is unlikely to do, and Palmer has to show that his arm is fully recovered and he can stay healthy. Without having seen whether there is any of the old zip on his balls, its hard to say how well he will be able to throw to COC. And lastly, there is the COC himself that must be dealt with. How long has it been that he has been a happy, productive COC?
Housh is the safer pick to click.


Agree completely...another thing to consider is that Housh is much more likely to be consistent week in and week out even if he ends up with similar numbers as COC does...Chad has proven to be terribly inconsistent week to week even in his past few productive seasons and that's not something I would want to deal with. I don't trust Palmer...he's never been the same since that knee injury, I don't trust the Cincy offense, and I don't trust Chad...I think Chad has more risk without having much more upside which makes it very unlikely that I would even consider him over someone like Housh this year.



I trust Palmer, but don't trust Chad. Palmer had 4000+ yards and 26 TDs the year following his knee injury. The complete deterioration of the O-line , an inconsistent running game, and a horrirble defense forcing Cincy to pass all the time has forced Palmers INTs and incompletions, sacks, etc. to go up after his injury.
Chad is way too inconsistent for my liking. Even in his glory years he'd have too many games where he'd have 5 or 6 receptions for 50 yards, and the occassinaly outburst for 180 yards and 3 TDs.

Housh is much more consistent, and more reliable week in week out, even on the Seahawks.
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Re: Better year in 09: Ochocinco or TJ Housh?

Postby mattb47 » Sun Jul 26, 2009 3:14 pm

fantasizing wrote:
mattb47 wrote:
moochman wrote:In a PPR league, I think Housh will do better than COC. TJ is the perfect WR for Hasselbeck and the Seahacks. I could see him getting over 80 receptions easily, and he may even be looked to as more of a redzone threat in the absence of any better receivers.
COC has to deal with a Bengal O that needs Benson to not suck two years in a row, something he is unlikely to do, and Palmer has to show that his arm is fully recovered and he can stay healthy. Without having seen whether there is any of the old zip on his balls, its hard to say how well he will be able to throw to COC. And lastly, there is the COC himself that must be dealt with. How long has it been that he has been a happy, productive COC?
Housh is the safer pick to click.


Agree completely...another thing to consider is that Housh is much more likely to be consistent week in and week out even if he ends up with similar numbers as COC does...Chad has proven to be terribly inconsistent week to week even in his past few productive seasons and that's not something I would want to deal with. I don't trust Palmer...he's never been the same since that knee injury, I don't trust the Cincy offense, and I don't trust Chad...I think Chad has more risk without having much more upside which makes it very unlikely that I would even consider him over someone like Housh this year.



I trust Palmer, but don't trust Chad. Palmer had 4000+ yards and 26 TDs the year following his knee injury. The complete deterioration of the O-line , an inconsistent running game, and a horrirble defense forcing Cincy to pass all the time has forced Palmers INTs and incompletions, sacks, etc. to go up after his injury.
Chad is way too inconsistent for my liking. Even in his glory years he'd have too many games where he'd have 5 or 6 receptions for 50 yards, and the occassinaly outburst for 180 yards and 3 TDs.

Housh is much more consistent, and more reliable week in week out, even on the Seahawks.


You can choose to look at how Palmer has performed however you want by writing things off but it's no accident that he has thrown 24 INTs in 20 games since his knee surgery after 25 in his previous 2 full seasons. So in those 2 years he threw 1 INT every 41.2 attempts...since the surgery? 1 INT every 29.3 attempts. I'm sorry...but you can't attribute all his shortcomings to a bad situation and laud him for the pieces of statistics that look good. He has actually been sacked significantly LESS since returning from his injury than he did prior...before his injury he was sacked 1.8 times per game, afterwards just 1.4 times per game. He has struggled significantly since his return in his efficiency, accuracy, and the most important statistic for a QB...wins. You can't just throw out statement like that which don't make sense and don't align with how things have actually gone.
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Re: Better year in 09: Ochocinco or TJ Housh?

Postby recmccl » Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:26 am

You can choose to look at how Palmer has performed however you want by writing things off but it's no accident that he has thrown 24 INTs in 20 games since his knee surgery after 25 in his previous 2 full seasons. So in those 2 years he threw 1 INT every 41.2 attempts...since the surgery? 1 INT every 29.3 attempts. I'm sorry...but you can't attribute all his shortcomings to a bad situation and laud him for the pieces of statistics that look good. He has actually been sacked significantly LESS since returning from his injury than he did prior...before his injury he was sacked 1.8 times per game, afterwards just 1.4 times per game. He has struggled significantly since his return in his efficiency, accuracy, and the most important statistic for a QB...wins. You can't just throw out statement like that which don't make sense and don't align with how things have actually gone.[/quote]

Do COC or TJ make good #2 WRs for a fantasy team?
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Re: Better year in 09: Ochocinco or TJ Housh?

Postby gmoney973 » Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:22 am

i would say Housh in a PPR, toss up in regular league. Both QBs have injury issues. Cincy might suck alittle more and have to pass more. I like Coles as a decent #2 receiver in the NFL and Henry should be good as long as he doesnt get in any legal trouble.
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Re: Better year in 09: Ochocinco or TJ Housh?

Postby Kensat30 » Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:33 am

I think either of these guys are good picks from about the 3rd or 4th round on. TJ Houshmanzadeh carries the most risk due to the offensive overhaul in Seattle, but also the most upside due to his new status as WR#1. Word out of Seattle is that they want to return to a run first offense instead of Holmgren's "pass to setup the run", which may limit the passing attempts. However, Houshmanzadeh himself has said that Seattle is allowing him to run downfield routes that he never saw in Cincy. That statement, and the big contract they gave him, lead me to believe that Houshmanzadeh is going to be seeing a lot of high quality targets in Seattle regardless of the offense. The schedule is nice, the offense has plenty of weapons to stay in possession of the ball, and TJ is in the position to succeed there. I think TJ has underrated talent and if he does turn out to have the ability to go deep, there is the potential for a top5 WR in fantasy if the cards fall right. TJ has always had great hands, appears to be a solid routes runner and has very very good after the catch ability. Surely Chad drew a lot of coverage in Cincy, but then again TJ was always the most productive WR there when on the field, and that was without the long bombs that Chad Johnson and Chris Henry benefitted from.

Chad Ocho has also come out and made statements that say he is going to have a monster year. Guy has admitted that he messed up last year in his preparation due to the contract dispute and is coming out with a new determination this year. This is a guy who was in the top5 in the league in yardage for like 5 years straight before crapping the bed last year with a backup QB. What is also downplayed from last year is that Chad tore his labrum early on and was never at full health last year at any point. I think the guy is a prime injury bounce back candidate as long as Palmer stays on the field. I think if Palmer is anywhere close to 100% or even 90% to open the season, looks likely, Chad Ocho Cinco is going to be the beneficiary. Palmer often times will force the ball to Chad even in coverages. Despite all the media reports about the downfall of 81, Chad is still his best weapon and should remain his most targeted WR. Coles is not a downfield threat and is not a candidate to replace the #1 WR in the offense. Chris Henry, while extremely talented, does not have the polish to stay on the field and cannot be trusted to be a consistent presence on that offense. I like Palmer to repeat as a top5 QB due to schedule, team makeup, philosophy, etc. with Chad Johnson leading the way in targets and stats.

Both of these guys carry enough risk to cause their 2nd/3rd round value fall into the 4th and even 5th+ rounds at times. Ocho is probably the better value right now as TJ's stock has been rising as of late. I sometimes see him go in the middle third in 12 team leagues. I have never seen Ocho go in the third round in a draft this year and have personally grabbed him in the 4th round a couple of times as a WR#2. As a #1 WR I prefer TJ for the upside, as a #2 WR I prefer Ocho for the big game potential. Bottomline, I choose Ocho due to draft position, he's the guy who is more likley to end up on my teams this year.
Last edited by Kensat30 on Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Better year in 09: Ochocinco or TJ Housh?

Postby joejlitz » Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:39 am

Housh is the "safer" pick at a higher ADP. COC is the high risk/high reward pick at the lower ADP.

And while I don't mind typing COC, I still can't bring myself to vocalize his legal last name. :-{
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