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NFL Rules clarification

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Re: NFL Rules clarification

Postby 2ksports » Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:09 pm

buffalobillsrul2002 wrote:
2ksports wrote:Interesting.

Makes me wonder, why not just be blunt and send your 2 strongest corners to pancake Moss before he gets off the line?

If he goes in motion, just drop back into regular coverage.


A few reasons. First, the "pancake attempt" better work every play, which it probably won't. Second, you've just clearly wasted your 2 best corners for each play you do this, and the offense knows it. You're playing 10 v. 9; huge advantage offense.

Even 2 DB a yard off the LOS can't pancake Moss with one hit. They'd have to grab and drive him to do that (that's called holding). Also Moss probably just wouldn't let himself be hit by both DB; he'd step outside or inside off of the line of scrimmage to isolate on one DB. Would it make it easier to contain him? Yeah, but there's very little you can do strategy-wise defensively in the NFL when you are playing 9 v. 10....


When you play randy moss, it's always 10 v 11. 2 guys are always committed, if not 3. Also in passing situations, it's likely 7(def) vs 5-6(off), leaving single coverage on the others.
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Re: NFL Rules clarification

Postby buffalobillsrul2002 » Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:15 pm

2ksports wrote:
buffalobillsrul2002 wrote:
2ksports wrote:Interesting.

Makes me wonder, why not just be blunt and send your 2 strongest corners to pancake Moss before he gets off the line?

If he goes in motion, just drop back into regular coverage.


A few reasons. First, the "pancake attempt" better work every play, which it probably won't. Second, you've just clearly wasted your 2 best corners for each play you do this, and the offense knows it. You're playing 10 v. 9; huge advantage offense.

Even 2 DB a yard off the LOS can't pancake Moss with one hit. They'd have to grab and drive him to do that (that's called holding). Also Moss probably just wouldn't let himself be hit by both DB; he'd step outside or inside off of the line of scrimmage to isolate on one DB. Would it make it easier to contain him? Yeah, but there's very little you can do strategy-wise defensively in the NFL when you are playing 9 v. 10....


When you play randy moss, it's always 10 v 11. 2 guys are always committed, if not 3. Also in passing situations, it's likely 7(def) vs 5-6(off), leaving single coverage on the others.


Good point. But the offense doesn't know which guys are committed. It's as much a strategical advantage as it is a straight 10 vs. 9 advantage. That's why in general you really don't show much of anything on defense, except that you have a guy near every receiver and no obvious open holes up front (as in, you play at least 1 DL on each side of the center....)

Moot point anyways, because not even 2 DBs could knock down a guy like Moss with one hit.
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Re: NFL Rules clarification

Postby kickureface » Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:45 pm

i guess levelin someone is harder than i thought. id figure some hs or college could do this successfully because of inexperience of the opponent.

is it illegal to do a judo throw on someone? not really a throw but more of a foot behind their foot and pushing their body, tripping them. (but i dont move my feet so its incidental!)
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Re: NFL Rules clarification

Postby Azrael » Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:48 pm

kickureface wrote:i guess levelin someone is harder than i thought. id figure some hs or college could do this successfully because of inexperience of the opponent.

is it illegal to do a judo throw on someone? not really a throw but more of a foot behind their foot and pushing their body, tripping them. (but i dont move my feet so its incidental!)


Good luck with that. It's not a fight, it's a football game.
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Re: NFL Rules clarification

Postby Kensat30 » Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:06 pm

kickureface wrote:thanks, so basically all answers are yes except thaT last one? what about if you are running 2 slants in and there is "incidental" contact running into the other slanters corner freeing him up?

that cleared a lot of stuff up, i was wondering if there was a rule since i never seen pancakes on WR before. couldn't the WR pancake the corner (pretending its a run play) and run up the field for a big pass gain?

also when yo usaid hold inside the shoulder pads, that means you must put ur hands on the front of his chest and not on the sides of his chest right?


Every block in the NFL is basically a hold. They grab the guys jersey and hold it while pushing the defender back. A holding penalty is called when one or both hands are outside the shoulder pads. The obvious hold is when the defender has both hands outstretched and the blocker has one hand in between his arms and the other hand on his side. That's a holding penalty everytime.
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Re: NFL Rules clarification

Postby Kensat30 » Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:08 pm

2ksports wrote:Interesting.

Makes me wonder, why not just be blunt and send your 2 strongest corners to pancake Moss before he gets off the line?

If he goes in motion, just drop back into regular coverage.


Randy Moss is one of the best WRs in the NFL at breaking the jam. He is also one of the best at using his hands down the field (without getting called for a penalty) to create space between the ball, himself, and the defender. The guy isn't the best WR of all time simply because he is fast and can jump high.
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Re: NFL Rules clarification

Postby joejlitz » Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:58 am

Kensat30 wrote: The guy isn't the best WR of all time simply because he is fast and can jump high.

Uh-oh. Sounds like a debate coming up. }:-)

New thread! New thread!
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Re: NFL Rules clarification

Postby dgan » Thu Aug 20, 2009 7:32 pm

what about if you are running 2 slants in and there is "incidental" contact running into the other slanters corner freeing him up?


I didn't see anyone answer this. This is one of tougher penalties to call. An offense will call this play a "rub", while the defense will call it a "pick". The essence of illegal contact is to INTENTIONALLY bump, obstruct, or impede the movement of an opposing player 5 yards or more beyond the line of scrimmage. If it wasn't intentional, it is referred to as incidental contact.

The referees typically don't call illegal contact on the offensive player unless it is obviously intentional. Thus, offenses regularly design plays where one receiver 'just happens' to run a route into a defensive back covering a different receiver. As long as he sticks to his route and runs generally in a straight line, he can run right into a defensive back and not get a penalty...in fact, they'll often call the penalty on the defensive back. But if he side steps to obviously get in the way or bump the defensive player, then they should (but don't always) call a penalty on the offense.
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Re: NFL Rules clarification

Postby kickureface » Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:09 pm

but is the WR allowed to block off the other corner freeing up the other WR for a pass as long as its inside the 5 yard off the LOS?
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Re: NFL Rules clarification

Postby joejlitz » Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:28 pm

dgan wrote:
what about if you are running 2 slants in and there is "incidental" contact running into the other slanters corner freeing him up?


I didn't see anyone answer this. This is one of tougher penalties to call. An offense will call this play a "rub", while the defense will call it a "pick". The essence of illegal contact is to INTENTIONALLY bump, obstruct, or impede the movement of an opposing player 5 yards or more beyond the line of scrimmage. If it wasn't intentional, it is referred to as incidental contact.

The referees typically don't call illegal contact on the offensive player unless it is obviously intentional. Thus, offenses regularly design plays where one receiver 'just happens' to run a route into a defensive back covering a different receiver. As long as he sticks to his route and runs generally in a straight line, he can run right into a defensive back and not get a penalty...in fact, they'll often call the penalty on the defensive back. But if he side steps to obviously get in the way or bump the defensive player, then they should (but don't always) call a penalty on the offense.

Looks like you answered your own question! ;-D
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