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kensat30's Top 28 QB Rankings

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Re: kensat30's Top 28 QB Rankings

Postby Kensat30 » Thu Aug 27, 2009 11:46 am

biju wrote:
Kensat30 wrote:
biju wrote:Not that I need to throw my hat into the Burleson ring here, but I have to agree with Kensat on this one. Most WRs don't do well their first year on a new team so to hold 2006 against him seems ill advised.

2007 was a solid year for him, but it was that first half in 2008 that makes me a strong believer in his abilities. It was extremely unfortunate that he was injured because it looked like he was about to really break out.

As for Kensat's other examples, I disagree with Anthony Gonzalez--I have him pegged for a 1000/6 type season in 2009 and possibly more depending on whether the Colts are in shootouts or not. His end of year schedule of DEN, JAC, NYJ looks pretty inviting to me as well.


Why take a potential 1000/6 WR in the 5th round of your draft, when you can get Donald Driver in the 8th and Derrick Mason in the 11th? It doesn't make sense.


I'm sure I don't need to say this, but I never said he was a good value. I merely stated that I believe he's pointed out that I disagree with your assessment of his abilities and what my projection is for him.

And weren't you the one earlier in a different thread stating that you don't want to have a Donald Driver or Derrick Mason on your team and that you'd rather have potential?

:-?


I wouldn't necessarily want Driver or Mason on my team either, just using them as example of comparable fantasy values that go later in the draft. I've warmed to Driver somewhat recently, but I think his current 8th round price tag is a little high. I'd much rather wait a few or a lot of rounds and grab players like Burleson, Chris Henry, Earl Bennett, etc. guys that have very little risk for their draft position but have big time upside. I'm working on my WR rankings this morning, so hopefully I'll have that posted today to get a discussion going there.
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Re: kensat30's Top 28 QB Rankings

Postby Kareighuis » Thu Aug 27, 2009 12:24 pm

Kensat30 wrote:I'm working on my WR rankings this morning, so hopefully I'll have that posted today to get a discussion going there.


Oh, this'll be fun. }:-)
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Re: kensat30's Top 28 QB Rankings

Postby 2ksports » Thu Aug 27, 2009 12:56 pm

Kareighuis wrote:
Kensat30 wrote:I'm working on my WR rankings this morning, so hopefully I'll have that posted today to get a discussion going there.


Oh, this'll be fun. }:-)


Hmm, I would not be surprised of he ranked Gonzo right where everybody else had him ranked and we had all these arguments for no reason.
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Re: kensat30's Top 28 QB Rankings

Postby Aeschines » Thu Aug 27, 2009 1:33 pm

I like parts of the list, especially calling out Warner. I have him rated pretty similarly because let's admit it, he has had a wild rollercoaster of a career. It feels like it's time for another drop for him. Also, I like Beanie Wells a lot and I think by midseason they will be throwing the ball less. So a few other comments...

Romo - I think TO helped his numbers quite a bit. He's still a good QB1 but not #5.
Palmer - I find it odd you suggest Warner is a risk with great upside, use that for his ranking, and then place Palmer at #6. He has the potential to be a top 4 QB but with his nagging ankle and past injury history I think he's a risk.
Rivers - Lots of weapons and a great QB. I agree that he needs more attempts, but I think he'll get them this year with more long balls to V-Jax and short passes to Sproles. Romo and Rivers ranks are swapped on my list.

Everything else I think is spot or +1/-1 position. I do feel Edwards is the highest upside QB2 (if you say Warner is a QB1 like the general public). Lee Evans not being double teamed every play is good for every Bill.
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Re: kensat30's Top 28 QB Rankings

Postby moochman » Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:10 pm

Kensat30 wrote:
moochman wrote:
Kensat30 wrote:
Why take a potential 1000/6 WR in the 5th round of your draft, when you can get Donald Driver in the 8th and Derrick Mason in the 11th? It doesn't make sense.


Finally, Kenstat, you get past your intense burning hatred of Ant Gone :-b and hit on the one point that cannot be argued: He is being taken too high in the draft. It is as if people are only able to see his upside and adjust for his downside. He has to prove himself, and has a lot of competition for the ball. He is a good WR, just not as good a value.


Ok here is the major misconception, I don't have hate for Gonzalez. I hate the guy for where he is going in redrafts right now. In time, I think he can absolutely be worth a 5th round draft pick in a Peyton Manning-led offense, but that's at least a year and potentially multiple years down the road. He may never reach the 2nd-3rd round status we've seen from Reggie Wayne, that's all I'm saying. The guy is an undeveloped player at this point and people are overpaying for unfinished goods. WR is a position that must be learned by evern the best talents in the game and average talents like Gonzalez often times take longer to develop if they do at all.

A good but not great Derrick Mason for example took a full five years before he became a fantasy worthy player.


No misconception, the inference of Ant Gone hating was all mine. I was hoping the chuckling icon would have indicated that better.
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Re: kensat30's Top 28 QB Rankings

Postby Stelly » Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:58 pm

Do all the injuries to the O-line in Seattle downgrade anyone's ranking of Hasselbeck?

I can't decide if Hass is a sitting duck, or going to be forced to throw it 35 times a game.
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Re: kensat30's Top 28 QB Rankings

Postby biju » Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:58 pm

Stelly wrote:Do all the injuries to the O-line in Seattle downgrade anyone's ranking of Hasselbeck?

I can't decide if Hass is a sitting duck, or going to be forced to throw it 35 times a game.


From what I've read there isn't any indication that Walter Jones is going to miss any more than what was originally estimated, which means he may be out for the first game. The Chris Spencer injury is only a big deal because of depth, but he actually isn't a very talented player and I suspect Max Unger or Steve Vallos will be able to fill in just fine.

The O-line certainly is downgraded while Walter Jones is out, but it shouldn't be for much of the season. The LG injury (Mike Wahle) was a blessing in disguise. He was a false start monster and just wasn't the answer for us all last season. We probably should have spent the damn money on Alan Faneca instead, but Ruskell must have thought he could get a "deal" signing someone else. Oops.
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Re: kensat30's Top 28 QB Rankings

Postby joejlitz » Fri Aug 28, 2009 5:32 am

biju wrote:
Stelly wrote:Do all the injuries to the O-line in Seattle downgrade anyone's ranking of Hasselbeck?

I can't decide if Hass is a sitting duck, or going to be forced to throw it 35 times a game.


From what I've read there isn't any indication that Walter Jones is going to miss any more than what was originally estimated, which means he may be out for the first game. The Chris Spencer injury is only a big deal because of depth, but he actually isn't a very talented player and I suspect Max Unger or Steve Vallos will be able to fill in just fine.

The O-line certainly is downgraded while Walter Jones is out, but it shouldn't be for much of the season. The LG injury (Mike Wahle) was a blessing in disguise. He was a false start monster and just wasn't the answer for us all last season. We probably should have spent the damn money on Alan Faneca instead, but Ruskell must have thought he could get a "deal" signing someone else. Oops.

Biju - you sound like the line is going to be ok, but then you don't exactly give a ringing endorsement. It's a good question about Hass. I heard a guy on ESPN two nights ago saying to avoid all Hawks because of the OLine. What do you make of that?
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Re: kensat30's Top 28 QB Rankings

Postby biju » Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:51 am

joejlitz wrote:Biju - you sound like the line is going to be ok, but then you don't exactly give a ringing endorsement. It's a good question about Hass. I heard a guy on ESPN two nights ago saying to avoid all Hawks because of the OLine. What do you make of that?


Well, there's reason to be concerned any time Walter Jones is injured. The guy is 35 and will be coming off two surgeries on the same knee in the same offseason.

That said, Walter Jones is a physical freak and even with those worries he's still a top flight LT (which people have been discounting too much lately). When he's in the lineup it's a *huge* boost to our line.

Having said that, his immediate replacement is Sean Locklear whom the Seahawks have been actively grooming to eventually take over the space. He's been practicing on that side this preseason and while he's looked good at times (Shawne Merriman didn't touch Hasselbeck in the first preseason game) he's also looked bad at times (Denver got to Hasselbeck three times and I think it was his side every time). It's a learning process. Unfortunately Walter Jones himself can't really help him in the technique department because he does things nobody else can do, so Locklear is kind of on his own with the help of the coaches.

Ultimately I think Locklear can be a decent option at LT but he's going to have some moments where he's clearly still learning. But the expectation from everything I've read coming from the Seahawks (and I've probably read literally everything) is that Walter Jones is on schedule. Mora specifically said that "NFL reporter" who said Jones could be out for the year was just "throwing that out there to see if it sticks". Mora has yet to be the type of guy that hides information from the media about injuries.

Let me know if you have other questions.
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Re: kensat30's Top 28 QB Rankings

Postby joejlitz » Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:58 pm

So in sum...is it safe to pick (would you pick) Housh and Hass? Jones? Carlson?

Only asking you because you're a Hawks fan and got the inside track.
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