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Slowest its been during a week 1

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Re: Slowest its been during a week 1

Postby aaawall91 » Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:05 pm

a1doug182 wrote:I know that I don't contribute much around here but I am one of the people who provides a consistency of long range traffic on this site. since this has been one of the few sites that I go to for fantasy football information. I've been a user since before my joined date so you can see I have been around a while. I agree with what most on the dissenters are saying and believe this forum is becoming less attractive to the user. I don't understand why you have to move a topic out of leftovers. Isn't there some way that instead of moving a topic, you could just make it accessible from multiple forums at the same time. That would satisfy those that like the old way and also satisfy those that want a more refined search. It would also ensure that you get more discussion on a lot of topics. That should also help your other forums grow.


Agree completely.

I've kept my mouth shut about this because I'm one of those guys who will make the best of what I have, and if the Cafe doesn't offer what other forums do than I may visit there more often. What makes this place great is the quality of people here; ones who can have insightful discussion, contribute to the site for no reason but to help others at the site like the site has help them, and guys and gals you can have a good time with.

I believe that while the management or whoever makes changes has the best interest in mind, but if it doesn't suit the current users who make the cafe what it is but rather is more inviting they think to new users than I'm not sure you will end up with a product you want unless you can turn all these mini super sub forums into very active forums (similar to what leftovers is/was (your opinion)).

My issue with this whole deal is judgement...Lets take a look at the front page of leftovers and what threads have been moved...lets keep in mind the first two words in leftover's description are "Fantasy strategy":

"sell on DeAngelo?"
With the Panthers offense looking so bad and Stewart getting healthy, is now the time to sell on DeAngelo Williams?

This clearly isn't a specific trade question sounds like strategy to me, yet was moved from leftovers to DTKW

"How valuable will reggie bush be in ppr after.."
after mike bell and pierre thomas get healthy? Should i try to trade reggie bush for someone that would have a better workload?

Same as the last...this is a strategy question.

"Week 3 Buy Low Candidates"
The art of buying low has helped numerous fantasy owners find themselves as champions at seasons end. I'm just going to throw some under-performing big names out there for us to analyze as buy low candidates

Buy low/sell high discussions have been a staple of leftovers for as long as I can remember, and I still believe it is a strategy question.

"When to deal the aging star?"
When do you deal an LT. The year in year out stud who is aging, more dings, more miles etc... Group Thomas Jones, Randy Moss, Owens etc.. into this.

This is crazy! How do you answer this question in terms of DTKW? "Trade For AP, he is young!" PLEASE.

"Going forward - Addai or Stewart?"
As a Flex guy/RB3 in a standard scoring format, no PPR, who would you rather have from here on out? Addai or Stewart, and why?

This was moved to the who to start/bench. I think this is still strategy, start/bench is a one week at a time forum. This is a season long question (maybe he has to commit to the player for the whole season) and therefore I believe again is strategy.

"Cedric Benson - a Sell High?"
Is he a solid #2 all season, or should he be sold off while he's hot?

Strategy.

Here is one more that is a bit different from page 2...
"The OMG, I benched Schaub thread."
This thread was made on Monday, Texans played on Sunday. It was moved to Game Commentary, Cheering and Venting. This forum is found under the "CAFE LIVE!" forum. The first three words as a prereuisite for entering the forum are "Watching the game?" this is for discussion of games as they happened. I don't see how this thread can be moved to this forum simply based on the description of the forum!


All the above threads were moved from leftovers to another forum, and honestly I don't understand. They don't fit better in the other forums, and they sure as hell won't generate more discussion in the other forums (isn't that what matters?). It just seems like there is some attempt to shrink leftovers and basically divy it up to other forums, which makes no sense to me since it is the leftovers and the other forums are "specialty forums".

Thats my bit.
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Re: Slowest its been during a week 1

Postby Carnac » Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:26 am

Quick survey this morning shows other sites are hopping and we are dead.

Cafe
Leftovers 3 members, 2 guests
Start/Sit 7 members, 1 guest
DTKW 5 members, 3 guests

Others #1
NFL Talk 227 members, 189 guests
Start/Trade, etc. 22 members, 12 guests

Others #2
FF Talk 31 members, 75 guests
Start/Trade, etc. 25 members, 17 guests

Others #3
NFL Talk 60 members (don't count guests?)
Start 2 members

These sites basically have a NFL/Fantasy Football talk forum and a combined forum for start/sit, trade, keepers, rate my team, etc.
By far the most active forums are the general NFL talk and football strategy forum. As far as I can tell they don't move topics much (if at all) to other forums. Just let the members have at it. All 3 sites have the NFL talk forum at the top of the list.

I see no inventive forum names like "Pimp my squad" or "Routine Plays", just straight forward NFL/Football Talk forum and Start/Sit/Trade/Keeper forums that are usually combined.

I am not posting to denegrate the job anyone here is doing. I love the cafe. I didn't even use other forum sites until about a week ago. But when I see the activity on their pages compared to ours it is a bit disconcerting.

Good luck to everyone at the cafe and hope you are taking a hard look at things.
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Re: Slowest its been during a week 1

Postby bungle613 » Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:11 pm

Carnac wrote:Quick survey this morning shows other sites are hopping and we are dead.

Cafe
Leftovers 3 members, 2 guests
Start/Sit 7 members, 1 guest
DTKW 5 members, 3 guests

Others #1
NFL Talk 227 members, 189 guests
Start/Trade, etc. 22 members, 12 guests

Others #2
FF Talk 31 members, 75 guests
Start/Trade, etc. 25 members, 17 guests

Others #3
NFL Talk 60 members (don't count guests?)
Start 2 members

These sites basically have a NFL/Fantasy Football talk forum and a combined forum for start/sit, trade, keepers, rate my team, etc.
By far the most active forums are the general NFL talk and football strategy forum. As far as I can tell they don't move topics much (if at all) to other forums. Just let the members have at it. All 3 sites have the NFL talk forum at the top of the list.

I see no inventive forum names like "Pimp my squad" or "Routine Plays", just straight forward NFL/Football Talk forum and Start/Sit/Trade/Keeper forums that are usually combined.

I am not posting to denegrate the job anyone here is doing. I love the cafe. I didn't even use other forum sites until about a week ago. But when I see the activity on their pages compared to ours it is a bit disconcerting.

Good luck to everyone at the cafe and hope you are taking a hard look at things.


I just did the same thing on an overall level.

#1 - 1200
#2 - 255
Cafe - 142
#4 - 81
#5 - 20
#6 - 9
#7 - 9
#8 - 4

I don't expect us to compete with the #1 guy as it is a pay site and offers essentially everything other than actual leagues.
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Re: Slowest its been during a week 1

Postby Carnac » Thu Sep 24, 2009 4:42 pm

I think you are looking at different sites.

A few minutes ago

#1 1151 users online
#2 1113
#3 286
Cafe 104

All message boards can be accessed at no cost. There are several I haven't checked and don't intend to.

Hope this info is helpful.
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Re: Slowest its been during a week 1

Postby bungle613 » Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:49 pm

Carnac wrote:I think you are looking at different sites.

A few minutes ago

#1 1151 users online
#2 1113
#3 286
Cafe 104

All message boards can be accessed at no cost. There are several I haven't checked and don't intend to.

Hope this info is helpful.


Likely since there are dozens. I don't think names are important but you need to look at what the sites are as well. All those that I looked at are essentially pure message boards. I tried to look at a cross section from the massively popular that do exceptional jobs of stats, rankings etc... and are PAY sites all the way down to sites I just know of that I basically just know someone who posts there. None offer leagues you can play on. All have similar setups to the Cafe. The Cafe had 350+ people online on Sunday. At any given time we have 100+ people online. The bigger issue I am having is that most don't seem to be posting, just reading. Tells me the content is quality here at the cafe but puzzles me why people don't feel they could or should post here. We have members here that have been around as long as I have that have less than 100 posts, I just have always found that odd that if you enjoy the site enough to come here every year for 5 or 6 years, join the converastion.
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Re: Slowest its been during a week 1

Postby yossarian » Thu Sep 24, 2009 7:02 pm

aaawall91 wrote:Agree completely.

I've kept my mouth shut about this because I'm one of those guys who will make the best of what I have, and if the Cafe doesn't offer what other forums do than I may visit there more often. What makes this place great is the quality of people here; ones who can have insightful discussion, contribute to the site for no reason but to help others at the site like the site has help them, and guys and gals you can have a good time with.

I believe that while the management or whoever makes changes has the best interest in mind, but if it doesn't suit the current users who make the cafe what it is but rather is more inviting they think to new users than I'm not sure you will end up with a product you want unless you can turn all these mini super sub forums into very active forums (similar to what leftovers is/was (your opinion)).

My issue with this whole deal is judgement...Lets take a look at the front page of leftovers and what threads have been moved...lets keep in mind the first two words in leftover's description are "Fantasy strategy":



I agree wholeheartedly with aaawal91 and I think he gives some very very good examples. I've used the cafe for and I respect what the moderators do here, but it seems like they've been very VERY quick to move posts lately and posts really do seem to get moved out of Football Leftovers for reasons that I can't fathom sometimes.
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Re: Slowest its been during a week 1

Postby buffalobillsrul2002 » Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:30 pm

bungle613 wrote:
Carnac wrote:I think you are looking at different sites.

A few minutes ago

#1 1151 users online
#2 1113
#3 286
Cafe 104

All message boards can be accessed at no cost. There are several I haven't checked and don't intend to.

Hope this info is helpful.


Likely since there are dozens. I don't think names are important but you need to look at what the sites are as well. All those that I looked at are essentially pure message boards. I tried to look at a cross section from the massively popular that do exceptional jobs of stats, rankings etc... and are PAY sites all the way down to sites I just know of that I basically just know someone who posts there. None offer leagues you can play on. All have similar setups to the Cafe. The Cafe had 350+ people online on Sunday. At any given time we have 100+ people online. The bigger issue I am having is that most don't seem to be posting, just reading. Tells me the content is quality here at the cafe but puzzles me why people don't feel they could or should post here. We have members here that have been around as long as I have that have less than 100 posts, I just have always found that odd that if you enjoy the site enough to come here every year for 5 or 6 years, join the converastion.


I'm one of the "readers who doesn't post much". The reason I'm like that is because 1. I have enough respect for this site that i don't like to just throw opinions out there randomly without any backing. If I"m going to say something, I'm going to look into it a little deeper first (look for some stats, watch some recent tape, etc.). I don't want to screw people over by giving poor advice. In order to do this, this requries two things: A topic I care enough about that I want to post, and enough time to actually do the post. I mean, usually i spend ~30 mins on the cafe every day (engineering major at college; I'm generally really busy with schoolwork/watching the NFL/playing football/basketball/tennis/whatever ;-D ). Point is, it takes me like 5 mins just to make this post. When I'm in the midst of a busy day, it's annoying. When I have hours to do nothing, I'll usually make a pretty good post on here if I find something worth posting about....
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Re: Slowest its been during a week 1

Postby Carnac » Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:54 pm

All message boards are the same. Many read and a few post. Always been that way at the cafe and is the same on the other message boards.

Focus on that and you are missing the point. We aren't getting as many to read OR post as many other sites are.

When I look on our current site and see "Pimp my squad", "Routine Plays" and "Football Leftovers" I see ambiguity.

When I look on other sites I see straight forward forums such as NFL Talk, Football Strategy, Start and Sit, Trades, Keepers, Etc. It says what it is. And the Football Talk (Strategy) ie. in depth discussion, is always the first forum listed. Ours is an afterthought. That is what we are talking about here. We are not talking about people reading and not posting. We should welcome both. We are just giving our opinions and ideas to try and improve the cafe.
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Re: Slowest its been during a week 1

Postby bungle613 » Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:27 pm

Carnac wrote:All message boards are the same. Many read and a few post. Always been that way at the cafe and is the same on the other message boards.

Focus on that and you are missing the point. We aren't getting as many to read OR post as many other sites are.

When I look on our current site and see "Pimp my squad", "Routine Plays" and "Football Leftovers" I see ambiguity.

When I look on other sites I see straight forward forums such as NFL Talk, Football Strategy, Start and Sit, Trades, Keepers, Etc. It says what it is. And the Football Talk (Strategy) ie. in depth discussion, is always the first forum listed. Ours is an afterthought. That is what we are talking about here. We are not talking about people reading and not posting. We should welcome both. We are just giving our opinions and ideas to try and improve the cafe.



I've got the point and agree to a certain extent so I won't rehash that part of this discussion as I believe that the issues of clarity, ease of use and forum prominence have been mentioned many times. Cool?

Saying all message boards are the same is where I disagree. If you go and pull traffic numbers from a forum that offers a venue to play football, rankings compiled by what the entire FF community consider as experts, news tickers etc... it is not a fair comparison. You immediately have to disclude Yahoo, ESPN, CBS as they have thousands and thousands of people PLAYING there.

I type in Fantasy Football Message Board on google and the first comparable sites up have traffic numbers you simply can not compare as the times are tremendously different.

1) 250 over 30 minutes
2) 266 over 30 minutes

Cafe 109 over 5 minutes. We extend that time frame and we are as active on a membership level as any free, message board driven website.

These posts that are done, not singling you out Carnac as I am certain you are trying to help, to simply try and say the Cafe is slow is unproven and purely perception. I appreciate and all opinions, comments on how to improve the Cafe but can't agree with and am growing tired of the posts that are simply written to say the Cafe is slow.

IN the same week in 2008 there were 44 active topics and in 2009 there are 81. Approx the same amount of "moved" posts were listed for each year.

What I will buy into is for the old timers who say the Cafe is slower than 2005/06 when the massive influx of members came on board. 05/06 is also the peak of FF where thousand upon thousands of casual players started with FF. I can almost guarantee you that every single site out there had there heyday in 2006 and have had a decline in new members and posts since then. Casual players no longer go to websites as they have learned the ins and outs for the most part and are not fanatical enough to go to the nest level. They check out rankings, stats and news tickers (maybe) and that is it. I see it in my office every day.
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Re: Slowest its been during a week 1

Postby Carnac » Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:55 am

Sorry I wasn't a little more concise in my last post. All I meant by saying all message boards are the same was amount of posts per looks. All message boards have many more readers than posters. That is pretty much universal. Don't think it's a cafe problem.

Haven't even looked at sites like Yahoo, CBS and ESPN. Don't consider those primarily message boards.
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