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Slowest its been during a week 1

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Re: Slowest its been during a week 1

Postby Matthias » Sun Sep 13, 2009 5:03 pm

The Lung wrote:While I can't speak for every single moderator at the Football & Baseball Cafe nor all the admins, I can say with a good degree of confidence that based on a lot of recent talk about you that virtually no one would be terribly upset if you stopped posting at the Cafe for good.

Well, I'll do my little part to help the Cafe along then, and stop posting (and reading) here for at least the rest of this year (forever is a long time, though).

We'll see if the Matthias Stimulus Plan works.

Stay classy, Cafe!
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Re: Slowest its been during a week 1

Postby MotorCityKitties » Sun Sep 13, 2009 5:27 pm

Matthias wrote:
The Lung wrote:While I can't speak for every single moderator at the Football & Baseball Cafe nor all the admins, I can say with a good degree of confidence that based on a lot of recent talk about you that virtually no one would be terribly upset if you stopped posting at the Cafe for good.

Well, I'll do my little part to help the Cafe along then, and stop posting (and reading) here for at least the rest of this year (forever is a long time, though).

We'll see if the Matthias Stimulus Plan works.

Stay classy, Cafe!


Where and when did The Lung say this? I couldn't find that post in this thread. Very uncalled for from a moderator.
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Re: Slowest its been during a week 1

Postby Madison » Sun Sep 13, 2009 6:01 pm

Matthias wrote:
Madison wrote:Menyak is the owner and only Admin, there are a handful of Field Managers on specific various things (writing, graphics, etc), and the mods. I have no vested interest in the site other than I've spent many years here

If you're not management, then don't speak for management. Simple as that.


Someone doesn't have to be management to know the answers to most of these questions.

bigh0rt wrote:But, the answers and priorities being listed by Madison in this thread are identical to what has been being said for years now, and I believe are simply off the mark. Could every thread in Leftovers probably be re-classified into a different forum as it stands? Maybe. Is that a good thing? That's the question we're looking at here.


Flip your question and you'll have the answer. Take all the forums I said threads could be moved to, and then stick all the threads in those forums into this one and what would the result be. Thousands of threads running through this one forum each day. Which wouldn't be a good thing. Additional forums have been built due to member requests and the need for some things to have their own forum. Everything in one forum would simply be a mess.

Munboy wrote:Madison... That's what makes me believe that the forums should be condensed. I don't know about you guys, but I don't like searching forum upon forum trying to find topics I'm interested in. When I get on here, I go to Leftovers, Steelers (if theres a new post), GT, and game commentary when there's games going on. I really don't have the time or patience to click through 80+ forums looking for topics I might want to chime in on. Having all those threads you said was in leftovers means that a person can go to ONE forum and see all those topics and pick and choose which ones he wants to read and/or comment in instead of having to go to multiple forums to see all those topics.


What's better though? Scrolling through 30 pages in Leftovers, or checking the front page of say 5 different forums (honest question, most of the requests are for less clicks not more, yet condensing forums will result in a ton more clicks as people scroll through things they don't care about)? Five clicks and glances seems easier and better to me than 30.

Munboy wrote:And just to prove my point, I had some thoughts about a college game from yesterday.... And I can't really find where to post at for college football (There used to be a college football forum). So, I have to keep my thoughts to myself...and that's a bad thing :-b


It's right here and took no scrolling to find:

http://www.fantasyfootballcafe.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=17

FatFoot wrote:
Madison wrote:Correct, you didn't. But remember the knife cuts both ways now. It was really in the Cafe's best interest for me to be polite as much as possible in the past. But nowadays, me being polite is a courtesy that isn't guaranteed. My behavior could drop down to an equal level at the snap of a finger.


So what's the point? Why be a mod if you want to act like any other poster? Mods with attitudes kill forums. What's the point in expressing that you've got a hair trigger, etc. All it's going to do is get someone to try testing it.


My name isn't in the mod green, and in fact here's a list of the mods and you'll see I'm not on it:

http://www.fantasyfootballcafe.com/forums/memberlist.php?mode=group&g=10228

So my question to you is would you just sit back and let another member berate you and treat you like dirt? Neither would I, and I was simply giving Matthias a polite reminder of that.
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Re: Slowest its been during a week 1

Postby bigh0rt » Sun Sep 13, 2009 6:31 pm

Madison wrote:
bigh0rt wrote:But, the answers and priorities being listed by Madison in this thread are identical to what has been being said for years now, and I believe are simply off the mark. Could every thread in Leftovers probably be re-classified into a different forum as it stands? Maybe. Is that a good thing? That's the question we're looking at here.


Flip your question and you'll have the answer. Take all the forums I said threads could be moved to, and then stick all the threads in those forums into this one and what would the result be. Thousands of threads running through this one forum each day. Which wouldn't be a good thing. Additional forums have been built due to member requests and the need for some things to have their own forum. Everything in one forum would simply be a mess.

It doesn't have to be so black and white. Also, I don't think anybody wants all threads into one forum. That doesn't mean that there aren't too many forums, or that Leftovers isn't the premier forum to be in on both the Light and Dark Sides, even if it wasn't designed that way.

The Jacksonville Jaguars' Forum has 54 topics in it in the last 9 years. 6 topics per year.
Couldn't every one of the 'Other Fantasy Sports' forums be re-classified as a sub-forum, so they don't take up so much space? Same goes for the Cafe Games and Writer's Field. I also think at the very least, that Leftovers should be placed in second position, underneath Routine Plays, with the Injuries/Updates and Sleeper forums being abolished, and that content being placed in Leftovers, as it typically is put there anyway, albeit in a separate thread or threads. I do believe it is apparent that there are small things that could be done to make the place friendlier, more user friendly, and promote more traffic where most people who have been here for some time believe the traffic ought to be.
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Re: Slowest its been during a week 1

Postby Madison » Sun Sep 13, 2009 7:04 pm

bigh0rt wrote:
Madison wrote:
bigh0rt wrote:But, the answers and priorities being listed by Madison in this thread are identical to what has been being said for years now, and I believe are simply off the mark. Could every thread in Leftovers probably be re-classified into a different forum as it stands? Maybe. Is that a good thing? That's the question we're looking at here.


Flip your question and you'll have the answer. Take all the forums I said threads could be moved to, and then stick all the threads in those forums into this one and what would the result be. Thousands of threads running through this one forum each day. Which wouldn't be a good thing. Additional forums have been built due to member requests and the need for some things to have their own forum. Everything in one forum would simply be a mess.

It doesn't have to be so black and white. Also, I don't think anybody wants all threads into one forum. That doesn't mean that there aren't too many forums, or that Leftovers isn't the premier forum to be in on both the Light and Dark Sides, even if it wasn't designed that way.

The Jacksonville Jaguars' Forum has 54 topics in it in the last 9 years. 6 topics per year.
Couldn't every one of the 'Other Fantasy Sports' forums be re-classified as a sub-forum, so they don't take up so much space? Same goes for the Cafe Games and Writer's Field. I also think at the very least, that Leftovers should be placed in second position, underneath Routine Plays, with the Injuries/Updates and Sleeper forums being abolished, and that content being placed in Leftovers, as it typically is put there anyway, albeit in a separate thread or threads. I do believe it is apparent that there are small things that could be done to make the place friendlier, more user friendly, and promote more traffic where most people who have been here for some time believe the traffic ought to be.



Sure, everything could be turned into subforums. It could be set up so that everything takes several clicks to get to any forum, but that wouldn't help with ease of use. The site already gave leeway and didn't turn Leftovers into a subforum of something else though (which it could have easily done), and is a shining example of how the site isn't out to completely trash Leftovers or anything. If the site truely wanted to kill off the Leftovers forum, it wouldn't be hard. But at the same time, Leftovers really is not as big of a deal as it is made out to be. Most of the threads in here simply do not belong, and it makes things cluttered and fragmented. Seems weird to me that if I want to find a sleeper, I'd have to check in here and in the Sleepers forum, when I should only have to check the Sleepers forum. Or a player update, or anything else. Yet putting all Sleepers and Player Updates in Leftovers would result in way too much in one forum (it's been done and exactly why those forums were built), so that would equally stink. The site has/is trying to compromise by not fully putting the hammer down on moving posts, yet that's not good enough, and the site/mods get dragged through the mud for their trouble (by some, not by all, quite a few people have been quite nice and friendly), and that seems weird to me because I just showed how the site could close the Leftovers forum and still have a place for the large majority of discussions if it wanted to. I guess I just appreciate the site for what they do for us, rather than feel I should/could demand them to change to what I want or think is best.
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Re: Slowest its been during a week 1

Postby bigh0rt » Sun Sep 13, 2009 7:08 pm

Madison wrote:But at the same time, Leftovers really is not as big of a deal as it is made out to be.

99% of this entire thread suggests otherwise. I do hope that those who are actually making the decisions these days realize that.
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Re: Slowest its been during a week 1

Postby mrblitz » Sun Sep 13, 2009 7:25 pm

I just got done reading all of the pages in this thread. And I am sitting here shaking my head. The Cafe is indeed withering. As most of you know, I all but left the Cafe, because of some Power Tripping Mods, laying down 2 yellowcards on me, in less than a week. For absolutely nothing, but voicing my opinion. But that's neither here nor there now. It is what it is. The Leftovers section of the Cafe was the main focal point of the Cafe. There are too many Forums, and some of the mods and admins or totally gone postal. So many of us vets left, and yes, more cases than not were due to Power Tripping, sensitive, and grudge holding Mods and Admins. I also have all but left. I'm sure I will receive my final yellowcard for this post.

It's a real shame, that the Cafe has taken this turn. It was always going to be my fantasy football home. But it is totally spinning into a downward spiral, and it's out of control. I never in a million years thought I would leave, but I was basically kicked out the front door. For nothing. Never received warnings, just got slammed, and kicked around, by some cocky uppers here. I have since moved on, and although in a league here, which I will continue to be dedicated to, I'm done. Matthias was treated wrongly here too. In the past I too would have defended the Cafe from wrong doers, but it's hard to do that when the Cafe is the one doing the wrong.
Sincerely, Mrblitz
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Re: Slowest its been during a week 1

Postby Madison » Sun Sep 13, 2009 7:42 pm

bigh0rt wrote:
Madison wrote:But at the same time, Leftovers really is not as big of a deal as it is made out to be.

99% of this entire thread suggests otherwise. I do hope that those who are actually making the decisions these days realize that.


If it could be shown why, that would likely go a long way. So far, all that's been said is there are too many forums which is too much clicking. The "solution" that's being asked for will resort in even more clicking and confusion (which has been done and proven to be a disaster, which is why there are forums for everything now). Believe me, I'd be on the same side if someone could make a good case for it that makes sense. Right now though, I've seen the disaster that was Leftovers when there were not enough special forums, so I side with the way things are now.

Granted, I'd rather see all forums listed on the main page rather than having anything being a subforum, but it isn't my call to make.
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Re: Slowest its been during a week 1

Postby Guru13 » Sun Sep 13, 2009 7:48 pm

bigh0rt wrote:
Madison wrote:But at the same time, Leftovers really is not as big of a deal as it is made out to be.

99% of this entire thread suggests otherwise. I do hope that those who are actually making the decisions these days realize that.

Exactly. Wasn't going to chime in, but that particular comment made me chuckle. 3 or so years ago this place was booming, so busy the site damn-near crashed every Sunday. Not to beat a dead horse or anything, but the difference is clear - simplify, the cafe's managed to get it's head so wrapped around modernizing and organizing that it's missed the point entirely. The regulars that you've seen around here for years aren't here to figure out who to start each week, they liked the cafe for what it was. You could come here, discuss strategy, discuss sleepers, discuss how awesome Treat will look with that goofy Packers sig I'm gonna make him wear and you didn't have to scroll for ten minutes on the 'jump to' bar to get there. I'm not saying there isn't a place for the start/sit, etc. forums because clearly there is, and there always has been, but I think some things have been taken to the extreme, and it's causing people to shy away. I miss the old cafe. It rocked... and no matter how out of date some of the graphics might have looked it was popular and drew countless numbers of people to the sight.

Simplify. If ain't broke, don't fix it.
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Re: Slowest its been during a week 1

Postby scottaa1 » Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:28 pm

mrblitz wrote:As most of you know, I all but left the Cafe, because of some Power Tripping Mods, laying down 2 yellowcards on me, in less than a week. For absolutely nothing, but voicing my opinion.


mrblitz, let me refresh your memory from Mookie's post in another thread in response to what you're talking about:

Mookie4ever wrote:I will accept and rationally discuss any matter with any member.

What I will not do is go over an issue that has already been brought up with multiple mods and with an admin or permit this to be brought up multiple times publically. At some point you've got to either get the message or refill whatever perscription ran out.

1) You never had a mug so stop asking for one.
2) When we say stop bugging us for a mug you never had we mean it.
3) When we say stop asking for it or you will get a card we mean it.
4) When we say let it go or you will get a second card we mean it.

That's it Blitz, no more discussion on this. There is a difference between withering and pruning if you get my drift.


There were multiple PM's sent to you about what you were doing by several different people. I know, I've seen them. And when I see the claims about power tripping and arrogant mods, I would like to think that if the people saying that saw what we go through regarding certain issues, they might be impressed by the patience that we show. In fact, that's a primary qualification in becoming a mod is to be level headed. There are VERY few people who get their own thread in the mod forum, and when that thread is ten pages long of complaints, issues, attempted resolutions with no results, etc., and we're still getting beaten up publicly, sometimes a more direct approach is taken.

Since most everyone doesn't see what's happening via PM and behind the scenes, it sometimes looks like mods are overreacting. In fact, most all of the non-interface issues in this entire thread fall under that in one way or another. But since we don't handle it publicly, we're frequently made to look like the bad guys because the other side of the story isn't known.
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