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Slowest its been during a week 1

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Re: Slowest its been during a week 1

Postby RyanK » Sun Sep 13, 2009 9:03 pm

Calyxes wrote:I have been a user of this site for a long time. I don't post here anymore because of a number of reasons.

2. The leftover forum seems dead. That is the forum I look at the most often. Probably the reason I joined the site.



thats what i would say.... i check in every now and then and would ust check leftovers then find nothing of interest and leave... went to the baseball side, got me hooked there and now life has had me not posting/checking/having time like i use to (funny what the real world does when your not in college anymore)

I started playing football on Sandbox, they were the first forum i used and loved it because there was generally one football talk area for sleepers, football talk, rankings, player comparisons and then another for rosters and trades and another for ust shooting the breeze... they went pay and i found the cafe, loved leftovers and general talk and the artist area for making sigs.... its lost that appeal it seems

but the leftovers is the heart and soul in my opinion of the cafe
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Re: Slowest its been during a week 1

Postby Dawinner127 » Sun Sep 13, 2009 9:18 pm

I love the Cafe, but the Leftovers forum IMO has completely died down. The clicking doesn't really bother me, so I don't mind scrolling through the DTKW forum to make a few posts to help.
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Re: Slowest its been during a week 1

Postby bigh0rt » Sun Sep 13, 2009 9:42 pm

Madison wrote:
bigh0rt wrote:
Madison wrote:But at the same time, Leftovers really is not as big of a deal as it is made out to be.

99% of this entire thread suggests otherwise. I do hope that those who are actually making the decisions these days realize that.


If it could be shown why, that would likely go a long way. So far, all that's been said is there are too many forums which is too much clicking. The "solution" that's being asked for will resort in even more clicking and confusion (which has been done and proven to be a disaster, which is why there are forums for everything now). Believe me, I'd be on the same side if someone could make a good case for it that makes sense. Right now though, I've seen the disaster that was Leftovers when there were not enough special forums, so I side with the way things are now.

Granted, I'd rather see all forums listed on the main page rather than having anything being a subforum, but it isn't my call to make.

Sunday of Week 1 and you've got posts from 6 days ago on Page 1 of the epicenter forum of the entire site (I know you don't view it as this, but I'll submit this thread as Exhibit A of the contrary). That is a problem. There are threads on Page 1 of Injuries & Player Updates that haven't been posted in for 6 days. That is a problem. There are threads in Sleepers that haven't been posted in since mid-June (only 8 threads have even had a single post in them this weekend). Maybe at one point the Cafe and Leftovers was so booming that some distinctions needed to be made to direct traffic here and there, but we're a far cry from those days now (and I remember them, when I would post something and it would be on Page 2 a half hour later). There's forums that average 6 threads per year. That is a problem.

We have to take a minute and stop thinking about what we think the Cafe is or ought to be, and look at what it actually is. That's the starting point.

On a somewhat aside, I think the Cafe Wiki could be a huge resource in terms of being able to remove some of the clutter.
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Re: Slowest its been during a week 1

Postby Madison » Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:16 pm

bigh0rt wrote:Sunday of Week 1 and you've got posts from 6 days ago on Page 1 of the epicenter forum of the entire site (I know you don't view it as this, but I'll submit this thread as Exhibit A of the contrary). That is a problem. There are threads on Page 1 of Injuries & Player Updates that haven't been posted in for 6 days. That is a problem. There are threads in Sleepers that haven't been posted in since mid-June (only 8 threads have even had a single post in them this weekend). Maybe at one point the Cafe and Leftovers was so booming that some distinctions needed to be made to direct traffic here and there, but we're a far cry from those days now (and I remember them, when I would post something and it would be on Page 2 a half hour later). There's forums that average 6 threads per year. That is a problem.

We have to take a minute and stop thinking about what we think the Cafe is or ought to be, and look at what it actually is. That's the starting point.

On a somewhat aside, I think the Cafe Wiki could be a huge resource in terms of being able to remove some of the clutter.


The lack of threads in here is due to the mods moving stuff to where it goes, but not going overboard about being forum police, because as I showed, only 4 threads would have been left last night (and more like 3 if it was a big hammer). So with a couple of new forums being added this year and threads being moved to where they go, it makes sense there would be less new threads in here. If you build 2 new highways, the one existing highway will be used less, and it would appear like less people are driving. May appear that way, but isn't necessarily the case.

I agree that there are forums people aren't using. Injuries and Updates along with Sleepers should get a ton more activity than they do. Why people don't post in those forums is where the problem is, the problem is not that those forums exist. Take the "Felix Jones, didn't notice till now, interesting" thread as a perfect example. It's a clear Sleeper thread to me. Why is it in here? Being in here means the contents of the thread could be anything from him having webbed feet to something he said in an article. However, if it was posted where it goes, then it would be clear to anyone checking the forum out that he could be a sleeper and they wouldn't waste time skipping over everything in here and even then possibly overlooking that thread due to the title not being clear and it being in the wrong forum. Anyway, as certain forums get more activity, they grow and grow. There are big benefits to posting where things go. Why the posts aren't made in the right forum is where the issue is, not that those forums exist. It's almost like people are too shy to kick off a new forum (like the Sleepers forum), but I don't really understand why that is.

I am looking at what the Cafe is. I spent quite a bit of time doing that snapshot of Leftovers. Leftovers is 4 threads, the rest belong elsewhere, like it or not, that's factual as to what was in here. That is what it is, not what anyone thinks it is or wants it to be, that is what it is. Yet people are still saying how important Leftovers is, but not providing a single reason as to why they believe that. I've shown how it isn't what it's perceived to be, why can't anyone show why I'm wrong? A ton of people are telling me I'm wrong, but no one is giving a single reason as to why. I'd love to be convinced to change my mind, but there's been zero information offered to do that.

The Wiki is a good example of something that lots of people agreed with, but ended up wrong (at least so far on that one). A lot of work and trouble went into setting that entire thing up because a bunch of people thought it was a good idea (myself included) and yet it's been up over a year and it is dead. Hasn't been scrapped yet, so there is time to save it if someone wants to. Another example would be the blogging feature. I do believe that option has been removed due to hardly anyone using it, yet most everyone thought it was a great idea. Same goes for the Cafe selling its own gear, shirts, sweaters, coffee cups, etc. 2 orders total out of that disaster, yet tons of people thought it was a good idea and should be done. The "Great Debates" Cafe game had a ton of support as well, yet it's dead too. How is this one any different? I mean if the Cafe reverts to the old days and Leftovers gets flooded by things that don't have their own forum, we'll be back to "wrong forum" posts, flagged threads, complaints, etc, just like it was before the new forums were built to solve those problems.

Great discussions can be held all over the site. It's just a matter of actually doing it.
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Re: Slowest its been during a week 1

Postby bigh0rt » Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:30 pm

Madison wrote:Yet people are still saying how important Leftovers is, but not providing a single reason as to why they believe that.

You've had multiple people say that it (Leftovers) is literally the only reason they either started visiting the Cafe regularly, got hooked on the Cafe, so on and so forth. That it is one of or even the only forum on the entire site that they check or have any interest in checking. Literally. If that's not reason enough, I'll just reiterate, that I hope that those who are calling the shots these days are paying attention. I'm not a big "good ol' days" guy, but the Dark Side (I can't speak for over here) is a shell of what it was when I first joined this site. There's a laundry list of excuses that are dealt out any time an observation like that is made, and some do carry some credence, but there's others that don't. Again, it's not about what the Cafe looks like on paper, it's about what it is. With that, I'll just bow out of this thread, since I've already clearly stated any and all opinions that I really have. ;-D
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Re: Slowest its been during a week 1

Postby Calyxes » Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:33 pm

Madison wrote:
bigh0rt wrote:
Great discussions can be held all over the site. It's just a matter of actually doing it.



Thats the problem! I am not going to go searching around to find what I want. When I get on it is usually for less then ten minutes. I quickly search throught the leftovers and the injury post. If I don't see what I want to read, I leave. I would be more apt to leave a message if I found something that enticed me. With the way the Cafe is set up now, I use rotoworld for any quick info I want to find. I remember when I did not need to even go to rotoworld because if anything of importance was on rotoworld, somebody would already have posted it in the leftover section. Thats what I called ease to the customer.
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Re: Slowest its been during a week 1

Postby scottaa1 » Sun Sep 13, 2009 11:01 pm

Alright. I'm going to ask that the UI/forum discussions be held in abeyance for the time being. Alot has been said from many different angles and I get the feeling it's causing frustration at his point. I'm not asking this to put an end to it, but to provide the time necessary to investigate possibilties based on the feedback already submitted.
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Re: Slowest its been during a week 1

Postby moochman » Sun Sep 13, 2009 11:06 pm

Madison wrote:I agree that there are forums people aren't using. Injuries and Updates along with Sleepers should get a ton more activity than they do. Why people don't post in those forums is where the problem is, the problem is not that those forums exist. Take the "Felix Jones, didn't notice till now, interesting" thread as a perfect example. It's a clear Sleeper thread to me. Why is it in here? Being in here means the contents of the thread could be anything from him having webbed feet to something he said in an article. However, if it was posted where it goes, then it would be clear to anyone checking the forum out that he could be a sleeper and they wouldn't waste time skipping over everything in here and even then possibly overlooking that thread due to the title not being clear and it being in the wrong forum. Anyway, as certain forums get more activity, they grow and grow. There are big benefits to posting where things go. Why the posts aren't made in the right forum is where the issue is, not that those forums exist. It's almost like people are too shy to kick off a new forum (like the Sleepers forum), but I don't really understand why that is.


Okay, showing quite a bit of disconnect from your customers in this statement. Rather than listen that the Leftovers is an important entity and that other lesser used forums should be incorporated into it, you insist on taking a 180 degree view and insist that, what, all but four of the thread in the trash bin (Leftovers) belong there. The rest should be moved, like the Felix Jones..to the correct forum. But you admit that people are not using it, and you don't know why. So lets compromise. Take the forums that are not being used much, sleeper, injury, draft, and throw them in the trash bin, the Leftovers, where all misfit threads belong. Then us misfits can happily go about our business of musing over McNabbs ribs, FWP's future, and and pondering that someone wants to do about Felix Jones.
If you can't bring the people to the forums, bring the forums to the people. But do try and hear what people are saying.
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Re: Slowest its been during a week 1

Postby scottaa1 » Sun Sep 13, 2009 11:14 pm

scottaa1 wrote:Alright. I'm going to ask that the UI/forum discussions be held in abeyance for the time being. Alot has been said from many different angles and I get the feeling it's causing frustration at his point. I'm not asking this to put an end to it, but to provide the time necessary to investigate possibilties based on the feedback already submitted.



Cut me some slack moochman. I've been on duty for 14 hours. The point has been made. I'm looking into what can be done, that's all I can do. I don't side with anyone on this issue, mod function in this case is to communicate through the proper channels, which is happening. I appreciate your input and everyone else's.
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Re: Slowest its been during a week 1

Postby bungle613 » Sun Sep 13, 2009 11:58 pm

moochman wrote:
Madison wrote:I agree that there are forums people aren't using. Injuries and Updates along with Sleepers should get a ton more activity than they do. Why people don't post in those forums is where the problem is, the problem is not that those forums exist. Take the "Felix Jones, didn't notice till now, interesting" thread as a perfect example. It's a clear Sleeper thread to me. Why is it in here? Being in here means the contents of the thread could be anything from him having webbed feet to something he said in an article. However, if it was posted where it goes, then it would be clear to anyone checking the forum out that he could be a sleeper and they wouldn't waste time skipping over everything in here and even then possibly overlooking that thread due to the title not being clear and it being in the wrong forum. Anyway, as certain forums get more activity, they grow and grow. There are big benefits to posting where things go. Why the posts aren't made in the right forum is where the issue is, not that those forums exist. It's almost like people are too shy to kick off a new forum (like the Sleepers forum), but I don't really understand why that is.


Okay, showing quite a bit of disconnect from your customers in this statement. Rather than listen that the Leftovers is an important entity and that other lesser used forums should be incorporated into it, you insist on taking a 180 degree view and insist that, what, all but four of the thread in the trash bin (Leftovers) belong there. The rest should be moved, like the Felix Jones..to the correct forum. But you admit that people are not using it, and you don't know why. So lets compromise. Take the forums that are not being used much, sleeper, injury, draft, and throw them in the trash bin, the Leftovers, where all misfit threads belong. Then us misfits can happily go about our business of musing over McNabbs ribs, FWP's future, and and pondering that someone wants to do about Felix Jones.
If you can't bring the people to the forums, bring the forums to the people. But do try and hear what people are saying.



Mooch... Madison is speaking as a cafe member. I will let him speak on his own behalf as he does it quite well but if all of you would take one second and forget that he once had his name in red and speak to him as a fellow member of the cafe you guys may actually be able to let the personal comments go and hash something constructive out of this thread.
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