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Football = Dogfighting?

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Re: Football = Dogfighting?

Postby Dan Lambskin » Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:35 pm

Omaha Red Sox wrote:
knapplc wrote:The whole dogfighting angle... huge reach. But it made headlines, which was why it was put in there.


Is it though? We fans encourage these players to continuously hit each other as hard as they can, knowing what they are likely doing to each other. Slight reach, possibly, but I think a reasonable angle nonetheless.


the players have a choice weather to play and take that risk for millions of dollars...the dogs...not so much
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Re: Football = Dogfighting?

Postby Omaha Red Sox » Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:33 pm

Dan Lambskin wrote:
Omaha Red Sox wrote:
knapplc wrote:The whole dogfighting angle... huge reach. But it made headlines, which was why it was put in there.


Is it though? We fans encourage these players to continuously hit each other as hard as they can, knowing what they are likely doing to each other. Slight reach, possibly, but I think a reasonable angle nonetheless.


the players have a choice weather to play and take that risk for millions of dollars...the dogs...not so much


They don't play for $$ until they've played for a decade. Do we really believe they do it all for the money? The WRs maybe... :-b
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Re: Football = Dogfighting?

Postby Dan Lambskin » Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:27 am

Omaha Red Sox wrote:
Dan Lambskin wrote:
Omaha Red Sox wrote:
Is it though? We fans encourage these players to continuously hit each other as hard as they can, knowing what they are likely doing to each other. Slight reach, possibly, but I think a reasonable angle nonetheless.


the players have a choice weather to play and take that risk for millions of dollars...the dogs...not so much


They don't play for $$ until they've played for a decade. Do we really believe they do it all for the money? The WRs maybe... :-b


they still have a choice though...although i will add that i have a feeling all of the negative effects arent expressed to them in this detail
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Re: Football = Dogfighting?

Postby knapplc » Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:06 pm

It is a HUGE reach. HUGE. The whole "free will" thing is the first major reach, and the concept that football automatically = severe damage to your body is another.

The point of his article was to highlight the injuries some guys have faced, and it's a worthy article. But if it's only that, it's not going to get a lot of press. Everyone already knows that football is a violent sport. Writing about this, even pointing out the details of some injuries, isn't exactly breaking new ground. You need a hook to make this move beyond the obvious, and the dogfighting angle was that hook.

There is as much correlation between dogfighting and football as there is between our moms and prostitutes. You really, really have to stretch to put the two in the same bucket. (apologies to anyone whose mom really is a prostitute. It's just an analogy)
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Re: Football = Dogfighting?

Postby Omaha Red Sox » Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:28 pm

knapplc wrote:The whole "free will" thing is the first major reach


Obviously players ultimately choose to put on the pads, of course, can't disagree there. However, I think it's more complicated then simply labeling it 'free will'. We are all familiar with the pressures put on players at all levels, whether it be parents, coaches, teammates, or the media. We have seen countless reports of players being 'forced' into something they wouldn't normally subject themselves to. Whether it be gaining more weight or ignoring an injury, we probably all know a someone, or have done it ourselves, in order to stay on the field. Yeah, anyone could say 'no', sure, but how often do you think that happens? There's enormous pressure to stay competitive and I would go so far as to suggest that anyone of us would put ourselves in harm's way in order to play on Sundays.

knapplc wrote:the concept that football automatically = severe damage to your body is another.


Of course it's not automatic, but it's close. You have a few players over the years who have retired 'in their prime' because they wanted to be able to play with their kids and grandkids when they got older and we've all seen the immediate scrutiny they are put under for making this decision. How many of us are still pissed that Barry quit when he did?

I'm not suggesting you're hiding behind what you consider to be 'stretches', but I also don't think it's as simple as you're making it out to be here. There are things to consider I believe, and this article was simply pointing that out. Yeah, it's been discussed before, but not comparing these two aspects of the nature of the sport. Not together. And the combination is what makes it quite frightening.
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Re: Football = Dogfighting?

Postby knapplc » Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:32 pm

OK, but nothing you're saying there brings football to the level of forcing an animal to fight to the death for entertainment. It's not even remotely close. There IS free will in football - I didn't like the guys I played with or the coaches, so I quit football at an early age. Nobody forced me to play. There is no free will in dogfighting; as we saw in the Vick case, dogs who didn't fight were sometimes killed. Nobody killed me because I didn't want to play football. Heck, nobody batted an eye at me.

Players who do choose to play also make decisions at every step. They decide to hit that tackling dummy, or spend hours at practice, or to take that shot in their knee if it gets banged up. At any time they can just walk away from any of that. Yes, there is pressure to do these things - nobody is denying that - but nobody is tying these players to the tackling dummy or locking them in a surgical ward or killing them if they don't tackle well. It's absurd for the article to analogize these things. They're completely different levels.

The simple fact that football is a violent sport does not equate it to one dog ripping out another dog's throat. The simple fact that coaches "encourage" players to perform does not equate it to completely controlling the lives of these dogs in every way. The scale of these things is so completely different that they are not analogous, not on the same scale at all.

Again, the analogy of football/dogfighting and moms/prostitutes stands. To correlate the two is a tremendous stretch.
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Re: Football = Dogfighting?

Postby PAFFL » Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:55 am

What a load of crap.
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Re: Football = Dogfighting?

Postby Kilroy » Sun Nov 08, 2009 12:38 am

knapplc wrote:It is a HUGE reach. HUGE. The whole "free will" thing is the first major reach, and the concept that football automatically = severe damage to your body is another.

The point of his article was to highlight the injuries some guys have faced, and it's a worthy article. But if it's only that, it's not going to get a lot of press. Everyone already knows that football is a violent sport. Writing about this, even pointing out the details of some injuries, isn't exactly breaking new ground. You need a hook to make this move beyond the obvious, and the dogfighting angle was that hook.

There is as much correlation between dogfighting and football as there is between our moms and prostitutes. You really, really have to stretch to put the two in the same bucket. (apologies to anyone whose mom really is a prostitute. It's just an analogy)


Thanks. Mom was pissed there for a sec. :-B
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Re: Football = Dogfighting?

Postby Omaha Red Sox » Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:05 pm

Kilroy sighting. This thread is a success. :-D
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