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Steve Slaton = 1 fumble per week

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Re: Steve Slaton = 1 fumble per week

Postby Dan Lambskin » Mon Nov 02, 2009 2:16 pm

if i was a Slaton owner i'd be worried...coaches dont care if a guy was a 1st round fantasy pick or not. also, it's not like Slaton is owed a ton of money either so it's not like Houston has to play him. i'm sure he'll get more than 1 touch next week, hell, he may even go back to his same starting role, but i wouldnt be surprised to see Moats get the next start either with Slaton getting some passing down work
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Re: Steve Slaton = 1 fumble per week

Postby Fade2White12 » Mon Nov 02, 2009 2:39 pm

mattb47 wrote:You're still ignoring the fact that Slaton has had trouble holding onto the ball and that coaches DO NOT forget that kind of stuff. If they don't feel they can trust someone with the ball they aren't going to give them MORE touches because a guy at another position got hurt...it doesn't change how they feel about Slaton himself.



I'm not ignoring anything. I simply find it a less glaring problem than you obviously do. Slaton had 3 fumbles all of last season. At WVU, he had 0. Yes, zero in over 650 attempts. I just refuse to believe that this is some sort of dubious deficiency that he would be unable to overcome. There have been quite a few NFL players who were considered to have fumblitis that were able to solve their own issues with pretty minor tweaks in their technique. With this week going up against Indy, as well as a bye the week after, there's no doubt he'll be working a lot to keep from putting the ball on the ground. If the coaching staff thinks he's overcome it, I have a hard time believing they'll hold some sort of grudge in the future.

Kareighuis wrote:No, the passing game (Johnson, Schaub, and the former Daniels) is the strength of this team.


And somehow moving from Slaton to Moats doesn't make the passing game weaker?
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Re: Steve Slaton = 1 fumble per week

Postby mattb47 » Mon Nov 02, 2009 2:46 pm

Fade2White12 wrote:
mattb47 wrote:You're still ignoring the fact that Slaton has had trouble holding onto the ball and that coaches DO NOT forget that kind of stuff. If they don't feel they can trust someone with the ball they aren't going to give them MORE touches because a guy at another position got hurt...it doesn't change how they feel about Slaton himself.



I'm not ignoring anything. I simply find it a less glaring problem than you obviously do. Slaton had 3 fumbles all of last season. At WVU, he had 0. Yes, zero in over 650 attempts. I just refuse to believe that this is some sort of dubious deficiency that he would be unable to overcome. There have been quite a few NFL players who were considered to have fumblitis that were able to solve their own issues with pretty minor tweaks in their technique. With this week going up against Indy, as well as a bye the week after, there's no doubt he'll be working a lot to keep from putting the ball on the ground. If the coaching staff thinks he's overcome it, I have a hard time believing they'll hold some sort of grudge in the future.

Kareighuis wrote:No, the passing game (Johnson, Schaub, and the former Daniels) is the strength of this team.


And somehow moving from Slaton to Moats doesn't make the passing game weaker?


Well...obviously the coaching staff views it as a big deal considering that they completely stopped playing Slaton in favor of the much less talented Ryan Moats which is what really matters. How does it matter what his fumbles were in college?? Is he playing in college? The plain fact of the matter is, he's been fumbling badly this year (7 times, 5 lost) and it's been hurting the Texans' offense...that's the stuff that matters to a coaching staff...and chances are they won't be up for giving him a ton of opportunities to continue to cough the ball up on the ground.

There's a reason that Denver was able to stick nearly anyone in their system before and have success...all it takes is a guy who can make that quick decision, hit the hole, and not fumble the ball...they've got a very similar system in place in Houston and if Moats can produce, they'll play him.
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Re: Steve Slaton = 1 fumble per week

Postby mattb47 » Mon Nov 02, 2009 2:47 pm

Oh...and on top of all the fumbling issues...he's only averaging a very mediocre 3.1 ypc on the season with as many fumbles lost as TDs.
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Re: Steve Slaton = 1 fumble per week

Postby Kensat30 » Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:07 pm

Slaton needs to hire Tiki as a consultant and get his high ball hold technique down.
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Re: Steve Slaton = 1 fumble per week

Postby Fade2White12 » Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:44 pm

mattb47 wrote:Well...obviously the coaching staff views it as a big deal considering that they completely stopped playing Slaton in favor of the much less talented Ryan Moats which is what really matters. How does it matter what his fumbles were in college?? Is he playing in college? The plain fact of the matter is, he's been fumbling badly this year (7 times, 5 lost) and it's been hurting the Texans' offense...that's the stuff that matters to a coaching staff...and chances are they won't be up for giving him a ton of opportunities to continue to cough the ball up on the ground.


I never said that fumbles weren't a big deal, or that someone who fumbles does not have a problem. What I said was that correcting the problem is not that difficult. Just like Kensat said, look at Tiki Barber. A new grip on the ball, shifting it away from defenses, keeping two hands on it while in traffic, and just going down at the end of some plays instead of always fighting for extra yards, would all be ways in which Slaton could lessen his fumbling. I think it's jumping the gun to assume that now GK won't give him the ball anymore when it counts.

Also, Slaton's college career matters quite a bit. Past performance often has a correlation with future performance. 3 years of NCAA football, and his first year of NFL football showed that he was very good at ball protection. That he is having problems only now indicates it's probably not a fundamental flaw, but something that he had right once and just needs to find again.

mattb47 wrote:There's a reason that Denver was able to stick nearly anyone in their system before and have success...all it takes is a guy who can make that quick decision, hit the hole, and not fumble the ball...they've got a very similar system in place in Houston and if Moats can produce, they'll play him.


That had much less to do with the skill of the running back and more to do with offensive line and blocking schemes. But regardless, obviously if Slaton continues to have butterfingers, he won't play as much as Moats. But again, that's a big if, and I think it's premature to already proclaim that a changing of the guard has occurred.
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Re: Steve Slaton = 1 fumble per week

Postby LeBron James » Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:23 pm

Dan Lambskin wrote:if i was a Slaton owner i'd be worried...coaches dont care if a guy was a 1st round fantasy pick or not. also, it's not like Slaton is owed a ton of money either so it's not like Houston has to play him. i'm sure he'll get more than 1 touch next week, hell, he may even go back to his same starting role, but i wouldnt be surprised to see Moats get the next start either with Slaton getting some passing down work


Yeah, that's a good point. People always think of fantasy first, like he was a first round pick, you can't bench a first round pick. But reality happens and changes need to be made. IMO I think it will be almost a 50-50 split going forward, with the hot hand getting more carries, and if Slaton fumbles some more, well.... he's pretty much done, maybe 5 carries or just in for passing downs.
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Re: Steve Slaton = 1 fumble per week

Postby moochman » Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:27 pm

LeBron James wrote:
Dan Lambskin wrote:if i was a Slaton owner i'd be worried...coaches dont care if a guy was a 1st round fantasy pick or not. also, it's not like Slaton is owed a ton of money either so it's not like Houston has to play him. i'm sure he'll get more than 1 touch next week, hell, he may even go back to his same starting role, but i wouldnt be surprised to see Moats get the next start either with Slaton getting some passing down work


Yeah, that's a good point. People always think of fantasy first, like he was a first round pick, you can't bench a first round pick. But reality happens and changes need to be made. IMO I think it will be almost a 50-50 split going forward, with the hot hand getting more carries, and if Slaton fumbles some more, well.... he's pretty much done, maybe 5 carries or just in for passing downs.


Worse yet for Slaton owners, I can't think of a reason on Earth why you would gamble on Stevie Butterfingers on the goal line. Moats will get all the juicy redzone work even if they give Slaton another start.
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Re: Steve Slaton = 1 fumble per week

Postby u_fig_eater » Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:53 pm

The coaching staff has clearly indicated that his fumbling is a problem. Kubiak has been critical of Slaton's play all season. You can't just look at the numbers. It's all about context.

If you were an NFL coach, would you keep giving the ball to a guy who is fumbling? It doesn't matter what the "problem" is (i.e. how he holds the ball), what matters is the result. It's not a fluke. The season's half over and he isn't getting better, he's getting worse.

Some people may think it's "premature" to write Slaton off, but that's the nature of fantasy football. You have to make decisions with incomplete information before other people in order to be better than others. If you wait for all the information to come out, someone will act before you.

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Re: Steve Slaton = 1 fumble per week

Postby mattb47 » Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:29 pm

Fade2White12 wrote:I never said that fumbles weren't a big deal, or that someone who fumbles does not have a problem. What I said was that correcting the problem is not that difficult. Just like Kensat said, look at Tiki Barber. A new grip on the ball, shifting it away from defenses, keeping two hands on it while in traffic, and just going down at the end of some plays instead of always fighting for extra yards, would all be ways in which Slaton could lessen his fumbling. I think it's jumping the gun to assume that now GK won't give him the ball anymore when it counts.

Also, Slaton's college career matters quite a bit. Past performance often has a correlation with future performance. 3 years of NCAA football, and his first year of NFL football showed that he was very good at ball protection. That he is having problems only now indicates it's probably not a fundamental flaw, but something that he had right once and just needs to find again.


You act like it's really simple, just deciding to change the way you hold the ball when you run...something he has practiced SO many times before that it's very, very difficult to completely change the way you do that. If it was so "simple", don't you think pretty much every player would have these problems taken care of?? The plain fact of the matter is that it's NOT simple and it's surely not something you change in the middle of the season.

Also...college has NOTHING to do with it because the caliber of defenses faced is nowhere near the same. He wasn't getting hit as hard, as often, or as well in college as he does now in the Pros. The comparison in this kind of thing just isn't there because the caliber of player isn't the same at all.

Fade2White12 wrote:That had much less to do with the skill of the running back and more to do with offensive line and blocking schemes. But regardless, obviously if Slaton continues to have butterfingers, he won't play as much as Moats. But again, that's a big if, and I think it's premature to already proclaim that a changing of the guard has occurred.


That's entirely the point I was making...it's a very similar scheme and if Moats can perform...then why risk a guy who might fumble so frequently? And the whole thing is that the coaching staff has MADE it a big deal with the fumbling and he's already fumbled 7 times this season. It might not be a change of the guard but there's little doubt they don't fully trust him.
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