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Offical: Santonio Holmes to New York Jets

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Re: Offical: Santonio Holmes to New York Jets

Postby Dawinner127 » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:04 pm

Everyone Jet fan I have talked too is drinking the kool-aid a little to much. Yes, we got better on both sides of the ball this year, but we still have to play the Pats twice, the Packers, the Vikings, the Steelers, and the Ravens. That could definitely be 6 losses before the season starts. Throw in Houston, Cincinnati, and the Fish twice (beat us twice last year), we have a pretty tough schedule IMO.
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Re: Offical: Santonio Holmes to New York Jets

Postby dream_017 » Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:25 pm

Dawinner127 wrote:Everyone Jet fan I have talked too is drinking the kool-aid a little to much. Yes, we got better on both sides of the ball this year, but we still have to play the Pats twice, the Packers, the Vikings, the Steelers, and the Ravens. That could definitely be 6 losses before the season starts. Throw in Houston, Cincinnati, and the Fish twice (beat us twice last year), we have a pretty tough schedule IMO.

You forgot the Lions O:-) :-B
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Re: Offical: Santonio Holmes to New York Jets

Postby Dawinner127 » Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:23 pm

dream_017 wrote:
Dawinner127 wrote:Everyone Jet fan I have talked too is drinking the kool-aid a little to much. Yes, we got better on both sides of the ball this year, but we still have to play the Pats twice, the Packers, the Vikings, the Steelers, and the Ravens. That could definitely be 6 losses before the season starts. Throw in Houston, Cincinnati, and the Fish twice (beat us twice last year), we have a pretty tough schedule IMO.

You forgot the Lions O:-) :-B

Guess they slipped my mind. How could I be so foolish? :-b :-b
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Re: Offical: Santonio Holmes to New York Jets

Postby moochman » Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:29 pm

mattb47 wrote:Mooch, you may not appreciate teams and the league actually standing for some sort of morality but I think you completely fail to understand the mass of the Steelers fan base and things in this respect. As a whole, Steelers fans have been absolutely disgusted with the way Big Ben and Holmes have acted of late and if there's one thing you must do as an owner of a sports franchise, it is to appease your fans and make sure you listen to what they want. There was no way that Big Ben would be on his way out given his importance to this team (and that he actually hasn't been "proven" to really have done anything illegal), so Holmes continuing to be an idiot was the guy who took the blow to appease the fans. It was a smart choice to be honest...Big Ben is not replaceable, Holmes is.


So it doesn't matter what the person does, its about how valuable he is to the team? I agree. This is a part of the hipocrisy on the morality policing under Goodell. By most accounts, Rothelisburger has done nothing but thumb his nose at his team and coaches. They asked him not to rid his crotch rockett, he nearly gets himself killed. (and one must only wonder what would have happened were other lives endangered by his reckless behavior). Maybe the Stillers condoned him going clubbing and sexually assaulting the first woman, but I am prett sure they would have told him to stop such behavior. Yet he disregarded recommendations and somehow ends up in a bathroom with an underage woman who claims he assualted her. That's three strikes, bring on the suspension. And not just a one gamer either, considering the excellation in severity of behavior and continued refusal to curb behavior. But, being a QB for a favored franchise, I am sure that no more than a one game slap will occur, if any suspensions. Were the the QB for the Raiders, well that would be different.
Now to clarify my position: I think we should let the law punish criminals. However, if we are to insist on being some moral authority then I think we have to go out of our way to be sure that all players are held to the same standards regardless of value to a team or otherwise clean non-threatening image. Failure to do so is failure. If the Stillers were really concerned about image they would get rid of Big Ben. Money over morality, eh?
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Re: Offical: Santonio Holmes to New York Jets

Postby portisfan24 » Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:52 pm

I'm not seeing the double standard yet. Roethlisberger isn't off the hook yet, so how is there a double standard? I can't really think of any other players of Big Ben's stature that have been in hot water and were given a free pass.

As far as morality policing goes, I support it to an extent. It is a privelage to play in the NFL, and like it or not, these athletes are role models. I wish they weren't, but that is the world we live in. By policing what we'll call "morality issues," the NFL is simply protecting their product. If the league starts getting an NBA-type reputation, it would surely be detrimental to the bottom line. I can't see any other motive for disciplining a player who hasn't technically broken any laws.
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Re: Offical: Santonio Holmes to New York Jets

Postby moochman » Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:00 pm

Munboy wrote:
moochman wrote: endorsed by fans who probably wonder why there are so many crappy games on any given Sunday.
I just wonder if we will continue to see Hypocrites on parade, or will Goodell suspend poster child Rothelisburger for his repeated amoralistic behavior


You see so many crappy games on sunday because you've been watching the Lions. :-b

Seriously, I'd like to further hear you how you think discipline weakens the game. Name one player out of the league because of suspensions that actually weakened the game. Pacman Jones? No, he's an underachiever. Vick was out for a couple years. No, that's his fault, he was in jail. Stallworth killed a guy, he MUST be gone for good! No, he's back...he's an underachiever anyways. Who is that one person gone from the league that weakened it???

OH wait, I get it. You're mad because players who cheat and use steroids get suspended, right? That weakens the game. How are players supposed to get bigger, stronger, and faster if they're not injecting juice into the testicles!

Fact is, I don't know what games you've been watching, but most of the ones I watch (and I have the NFL Sunday Ticket, so I see A LOT) have been pretty dang good. There is still a disparity between certain teams, but that's because some teams have bad management and coaches, and players that don't fit.

As for Roethlisburger, he is meeting with the good commish this week and I wouldn't be surprised at all if he were suspended for a game. Not because of the law trouble because he hasn't been charged with anything, but because he goes out and puts himself in situations where these type of charges can be brought against him. It won't be a suspension that says, "You did these things, so you're going to sit a game or two." It's a suspension that says, "Here's your one and only warning. Get your act together or you'll be in serious trouble." As a Steeler fan, I'd hate to lose Big Ben for a couple games, but I won't complain at all. He absolutely deserves it. If the suspension extends to 4 or more games, I will grumble and grumble loudly. But a couple games, he deserves.


Munboy, were the Giants a better team without Burress? Granted a poor example because of the gun laws in NYC and silly behavior by a young rich athlete acting like a young rich athlete. Fact is that if the league got rid of all the athletes who don’t live like owners who come from different worlds there wouldn’t be enough players worth watching to field a league. How good would the Ravens have been if our moral climate would have existed at the time Ray Lewis was (alledgedly) watching his friends kill a man? Would obstruction of justice in a murder trial not have been enough to ban him from the league? Bear in mind the accolades bestowed upon him from that very league in the years following the brutal murder. How about his teammate? Would he have been able to play with his cocaine trafficking issues? Would the Ravens have been as entertaining without Lewis and Lewis? How about this example: how good would the Stillers be without Rothelisburger? How many more drunken escapades does the moron have to have before the league has no choice but to hang itself with its own rope?

Fact is, how by the way can an opinion be fact? But I’ll play along. Fact is, when you remove talent the product cannot help but suffer. Its not the sum of the parts, it’s the quality.

Why wouldn’t Roethlisburger deserve a 4 game suspension? What if that was your daughter, wife, girlfriend, mother, brother, or pet that he was molesting? But it is much more tolerable to get rid of a player who might be high around them instead? Fact is, that is a lopsided equation in my book.
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Re: Offical: Santonio Holmes to New York Jets

Postby Munboy » Tue Apr 13, 2010 6:04 pm

moochman wrote:
Munboy wrote:
moochman wrote: endorsed by fans who probably wonder why there are so many crappy games on any given Sunday.
I just wonder if we will continue to see Hypocrites on parade, or will Goodell suspend poster child Rothelisburger for his repeated amoralistic behavior


You see so many crappy games on sunday because you've been watching the Lions. :-b

Seriously, I'd like to further hear you how you think discipline weakens the game. Name one player out of the league because of suspensions that actually weakened the game. Pacman Jones? No, he's an underachiever. Vick was out for a couple years. No, that's his fault, he was in jail. Stallworth killed a guy, he MUST be gone for good! No, he's back...he's an underachiever anyways. Who is that one person gone from the league that weakened it???

OH wait, I get it. You're mad because players who cheat and use steroids get suspended, right? That weakens the game. How are players supposed to get bigger, stronger, and faster if they're not injecting juice into the testicles!

Fact is, I don't know what games you've been watching, but most of the ones I watch (and I have the NFL Sunday Ticket, so I see A LOT) have been pretty dang good. There is still a disparity between certain teams, but that's because some teams have bad management and coaches, and players that don't fit.

As for Roethlisburger, he is meeting with the good commish this week and I wouldn't be surprised at all if he were suspended for a game. Not because of the law trouble because he hasn't been charged with anything, but because he goes out and puts himself in situations where these type of charges can be brought against him. It won't be a suspension that says, "You did these things, so you're going to sit a game or two." It's a suspension that says, "Here's your one and only warning. Get your act together or you'll be in serious trouble." As a Steeler fan, I'd hate to lose Big Ben for a couple games, but I won't complain at all. He absolutely deserves it. If the suspension extends to 4 or more games, I will grumble and grumble loudly. But a couple games, he deserves.


Munboy, were the Giants a better team without Burress? Granted a poor example because of the gun laws in NYC and silly behavior by a young rich athlete acting like a young rich athlete. Fact is that if the league got rid of all the athletes who don’t live like owners who come from different worlds there wouldn’t be enough players worth watching to field a league. How good would the Ravens have been if our moral climate would have existed at the time Ray Lewis was (alledgedly) watching his friends kill a man? Would obstruction of justice in a murder trial not have been enough to ban him from the league? Bear in mind the accolades bestowed upon him from that very league in the years following the brutal murder. How about his teammate? Would he have been able to play with his cocaine trafficking issues? Would the Ravens have been as entertaining without Lewis and Lewis? How about this example: how good would the Stillers be without Rothelisburger? How many more drunken escapades does the moron have to have before the league has no choice but to hang itself with its own rope?

Fact is, how by the way can an opinion be fact? But I’ll play along. Fact is, when you remove talent the product cannot help but suffer. Its not the sum of the parts, it’s the quality.

Why wouldn’t Roethlisburger deserve a 4 game suspension? What if that was your daughter, wife, girlfriend, mother, brother, or pet that he was molesting? But it is much more tolerable to get rid of a player who might be high around them instead? Fact is, that is a lopsided equation in my book.


Burress hasn't been disciplined by the league, so that is a bad example. He's in jail, not suspended.

But should the league ignore indiscretions to keep the league from weakening? Should they ignore the fact that Stallworth killed somebody (much like it did with Little pre-Goodell)? Should they ignore the drugs, the domestic violence, the tussles with police, the drunk driving, the cheating, and, yes, having sex with random women in a bathroom stall? Should that all be ignored for the sake of the league? So they don't lose their fan base? I'd have to say, no they shouldn't. In fact, if they continued turning their head the other way on these kinds of things, there would be a huge backlash from fans (see baseball circa..now).

I'd argue that not letting the athletes be spoiled brats who think they can get away with whatever they wanted actually strengthens the league and builds it's fan base.
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Re: Offical: Santonio Holmes to New York Jets

Postby joejlitz » Tue Apr 13, 2010 6:56 pm

moochman wrote:
Fact is, how by the way can an opinion be fact? But I’ll play along. Fact is, when you remove talent the product cannot help but suffer. Its not the sum of the parts, it’s the quality.


The great thing about the NFL is that there are 22 players on the field at any one time. Losing a talented player here or there won't make a difference. In fact, it simply changes the game which could make it more exciting. Lose a lineman? More sacks! Lose a cornerback? Look for the bomb!

You must be very pro protect-the-QB and as well? And in support of the "defenseless receiver" rule? That keeps the talent on the field.
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Re: Offical: Santonio Holmes to New York Jets

Postby joejlitz » Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:00 pm

moochman wrote:
Fact is, how by the way can an opinion be fact? But I’ll play along. Fact is, when you remove talent the product cannot help but suffer. Its not the sum of the parts, it’s the quality.


This year's Super Bowl had no Plaxico. No Santonio. Yet, it was the most watched television program ever. I don't think there'd have been a heck of a lot of drop off if Marques Colston or Reggie Bush got suspended for whoring the night before (ala that defensive player for ATL about 10 years ago).

The great thing about the NFL is that there are 22 players on the field at any one time. Losing a talented player here or there won't make a difference. In fact, it simply changes the game which could make it more exciting. Lose a lineman? More sacks! Lose a cornerback? Look for the bomb!

You must be very pro protect-the-QB and as well? And in support of the "defenseless receiver" rule? That keeps the talent on the field.
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Re: Offical: Santonio Holmes to New York Jets

Postby moochman » Sat Apr 17, 2010 2:14 pm

joejlitz wrote:
moochman wrote:
Fact is, how by the way can an opinion be fact? But I’ll play along. Fact is, when you remove talent the product cannot help but suffer. Its not the sum of the parts, it’s the quality.


The great thing about the NFL is that there are 22 players on the field at any one time. Losing a talented player here or there won't make a difference. In fact, it simply changes the game which could make it more exciting. Lose a lineman? More sacks! Lose a cornerback? Look for the bomb!

You must be very pro protect-the-QB and as well? And in support of the "defenseless receiver" rule? That keeps the talent on the field.


If you keep subtracting talent the game is effected. My views on protecting the QB aren't the issue, the better example would be to ask how good is the quality of the game you are watching when you have a QB like Brees vs a QB like Delhomme. A Cutler and Marshall in Denver vs a Orton and ???. Do you enjoy watching a Barry Sanders more or less than a Kevin Smith?
Injuries are a part of the game, not a part of my agruement. Willingly removing talented players from the game because they don't live up to a standard that they grew up with no idea of is a misguided projection of upper educational/economical society morals, at best. Making the game seem less scarey and easier to sell to a certain demographic does not equal making the game better, and it does a great disservice to those who the travishamockery this moral witch hunt has become.
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