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Isn't Tory Holt Done? Not with the Pats...

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Isn't Tory Holt Done? Not with the Pats...

Postby joejlitz » Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:58 pm

NE signed Tory Holt today. On the surface it looks like a good deal for NE. He's only 33. He's a former perennial Pro Bowl player. Maybe he can return to form in 2010? However, I would say the fact that this is only a 1-year deal is a signal that Holt really is farther over the hill than some might hope.
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Re: Isn't Tory Holt Done? Not with the Pats...

Postby iamgregg » Tue Apr 20, 2010 9:31 pm

Would be surprised if he had much more success than Joey Galloway did last year.
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Re: Isn't Tory Holt Done? Not with the Pats...

Postby moochman » Tue Apr 20, 2010 9:57 pm

iamgregg wrote:Would be surprised if he had much more success than Joey Galloway did last year.


Ouch. Sadly, probably not too far from the truth. Holt is running on fumes. Sadly, it could be that the Pats have lost too much FO talent over the last 5 seasons. May be over-rating Tori, or their ability to squeeze more blood out of the NFL turnips.
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Re: Isn't Tory Holt Done? Not with the Pats...

Postby nsulham » Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:55 am

I don't buy that he's Joey Galloway Part II. Galloway had one thing going for him and that was speed. He wasn't a great route-runner and that was ultimately his undoing. Brady likes his receivers on point as far as routes and to my knowledge, that's always been a plus with Holt. Great hands, good route-runner. He had 700-some yards last year in a run-heavy offense. If he can give them that, with Brady instead of Garrard getting him the ball and Moss on the other side to deflect attention, it's a good signing. I don't expect him to be great shakes but I'm cautiously optimistic.
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Re: Isn't Tory Holt Done? Not with the Pats...

Postby Munboy » Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:30 pm

Is Holt done, or is it the fact that he's played for the Rams and Jaguars the past few years? Rams = No QB or Oline. Jax = run first team and QB who hasn't lived up to unseating leftwich status.
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Re: Isn't Tory Holt Done? Not with the Pats...

Postby portisfan24 » Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:37 pm

Munboy wrote:Is Holt done, or is it the fact that he's played for the Rams and Jaguars the past few years? Rams = No QB or Oline. Jax = run first team and QB who hasn't lived up to unseating leftwich status.


That's what I was thinking. I remember quite a few people thinking Randy was done after his exile in Oakland. Now obviously I'm not going to predict that sort of production from Holt, but he should be a solid option on the outside across from Moss, with Welker moving back into the slot when he gets back from injury.
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Re: Isn't Tory Holt Done? Not with the Pats...

Postby mattb47 » Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:55 pm

portisfan24 wrote:
Munboy wrote:Is Holt done, or is it the fact that he's played for the Rams and Jaguars the past few years? Rams = No QB or Oline. Jax = run first team and QB who hasn't lived up to unseating leftwich status.


That's what I was thinking. I remember quite a few people thinking Randy was done after his exile in Oakland. Now obviously I'm not going to predict that sort of production from Holt, but he should be a solid option on the outside across from Moss, with Welker moving back into the slot when he gets back from injury.


I don't think you can reasonably compare the level Moss was at when he came to NE and the level Holt is at now...with Moss most people pretty much were under the impression that he was just not putting forth the effort and it was more of an attitude thing. Some people thought that he lost a step and he may have, but when he tried he was still exceptional. With Holt, work ethic is not an issue and it's been obvious that he's not the same receiver he once was so I see this signing closer to the Joey Galloway signing than the Randy Moss one.
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Re: Isn't Tory Holt Done? Not with the Pats...

Postby portisfan24 » Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:42 pm

No I agree, the ceiling for Moss was much higher when he came aboard. However, the stats are pretty interesting.

Randy Moss

2004 (Vikings) 49 rec, 767 yds, 13 TDS
2005 (Raiders) 60, 1005, 8
2006 (Raiders) 42, 553, 3

Then he joined the Patriots and had the massive season at age 30.

Torry Holt

2007 (Rams) 93, 1189, 7
2008 (Rams) 64, 796, 3
2009 (Jags) 51, 722, 0

He will be 34 before the season starts.

So if you look closely, Holt actually has more catches and yards in the last 3 years than Moss had in the 3 years before joining the Pats. Also, outside of the 08 and 09 seasons, Holt had 1000 yards in every season since 2000. He is a few years older, but as nsulham pointed out, Holt relies more on a route running and possession game. Moss relies on sheer athleticism. You would think that Holt's game would be better suited for a player getting up there in age.

Like I said, to expect a Moss-like turnaround would be beyond optimistic, but there's no reason he can't be a solid 3rd or 4th option (provided Welker comes back and the Pats get their hands on a TE who can actually catch the ball).
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Re: Isn't Tory Holt Done? Not with the Pats...

Postby mattb47 » Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:09 pm

I don't necessarily think that Holt will be a waste of space like Galloway was but I don't really see him being a huge contributor for the Pats this year. He's a good route runner with great hands and while that does get hurt less by age than a speedy guy based on athleticism, he has clearly lost a few steps and his ability to create separation is minimal at this point in his career. It's not a terrible signing and who knows, maybe he has something left in the tank, but I don't know that we'll really be talking about him at all this year in a very positive light.
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Re: Isn't Tory Holt Done? Not with the Pats...

Postby joejlitz » Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:11 pm

mattb47 wrote:I don't necessarily think that Holt will be a waste of space like Galloway was but I don't really see him being a huge contributor for the Pats this year...

For the reasons matt said after the ... and also because he has to compete with Moss, Welker (when healthy), and Edelman (assuming the Pats liked what they saw last year). There's only 1 ball.


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