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Wilson: Broncos 'panicked' with Tebow pick

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Re: Wilson: Broncos 'panicked' with Tebow pick

Postby mattb47 » Sun May 09, 2010 6:29 pm

I think part of the big thing people like to point at with Tebow running too often or holding onto the ball too long has a lot to do with the style of offense he played in. He played in a pretty straightforward offense where he had a handful of quick options to look for and if he didn't find something he liked, he could run. That's not what's going to be asked of him in a pro style offense where he'll have multiple options, taught to stay in there and try to find the open player, and make decisions based on what he sees rather than what he has set before him prior to the play. For a lot of guys this is something that is a huge concern because since they haven't played in that style of offense before, people wonder if they have the ability to pick it up in the Pros...but considering that the strongest point of Tebow's game is that he has a very high football IQ and is therefore more likely to pick up to smaller things in a Pro Style Offense.

I still think that people are arguing too much out of the idea that he hasn't therefore he can't which is so ridiculously flawed reasoning that it's hardly even worth talking about. Until he shows that he has trouble with that at the next level and CAN'T do a lot of the things people question, it makes little sense to assume he can't just because he wasn't really asked to in college.
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Re: Wilson: Broncos 'panicked' with Tebow pick

Postby bazzy_51 » Sun May 09, 2010 9:07 pm

mattb47 wrote:I still think that people are arguing too much out of the idea that he hasn't therefore he can't which is so ridiculously flawed reasoning that it's hardly even worth talking about. Until he shows that he has trouble with that at the next level and CAN'T do a lot of the things people question, it makes little sense to assume he can't just because he wasn't really asked to in college.


Couldn't agree more, and thread should really close with this.

@ da bears: What I meant by that is simply this: He was highly touted coming out of high school because of his athletism and a big plus on his arm. So if he was coming out of highschool, then how wouldn't 4 years of strength and conditioning at one of the top programs in the nation not ADD to this strength? The question was asked about his arm strength, and whether or not he was highly recruited out of highschool, I answered that with accurate facts. Then took them to the next level by saying, in my opinion, his arm strength should have increased in those 4 years. Because, I know my high school weightroom in the club house is not even a whole in the wall compared to UofF's facility, not to mention those college programs have people specifically hired on to do the job of making sure their players are on strick diets, strick lifting programs and even strickter conditioning programs then those of a highschool football program.

Last thought on this for me is exactly what Matt said in the quote up above, and I close this chapter with that.
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Re: Wilson: Broncos 'panicked' with Tebow pick

Postby Munboy » Mon May 10, 2010 7:20 am

mattb47 wrote:I think part of the big thing people like to point at with Tebow running too often or holding onto the ball too long has a lot to do with the style of offense he played in. He played in a pretty straightforward offense where he had a handful of quick options to look for and if he didn't find something he liked, he could run. That's not what's going to be asked of him in a pro style offense where he'll have multiple options, taught to stay in there and try to find the open player, and make decisions based on what he sees rather than what he has set before him prior to the play. For a lot of guys this is something that is a huge concern because since they haven't played in that style of offense before, people wonder if they have the ability to pick it up in the Pros...but considering that the strongest point of Tebow's game is that he has a very high football IQ and is therefore more likely to pick up to smaller things in a Pro Style Offense.

I still think that people are arguing too much out of the idea that he hasn't therefore he can't which is so ridiculously flawed reasoning that it's hardly even worth talking about. Until he shows that he has trouble with that at the next level and CAN'T do a lot of the things people question, it makes little sense to assume he can't just because he wasn't really asked to in college.


On the flip side of that argument, he has to show that he CAN do the things people question. ;-D
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Re: Wilson: Broncos 'panicked' with Tebow pick

Postby da bears » Mon May 10, 2010 9:19 am

I guess we all just saw something different of him while he was at UF then. I saw a guy w a slow release(he's improved but he made Leftwich look like drew brees before so not sure what that really means), not much accuracy, in an offense with highly skilled players, and he did hang onto the ball too long last year he missed plenty of his quick reads but maybe getting his clock cleaned hurt him there since it didn't happen too often his 1st two years starting. I liked the guy in college I just think other QB's are going to be better than him from this draft and Denver butchered this pick considering the current options could potentially be better than Tebow ever could be at QB.
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Re: Wilson: Broncos 'panicked' with Tebow pick

Postby mattb47 » Mon May 10, 2010 12:56 pm

Munboy wrote:
mattb47 wrote:I think part of the big thing people like to point at with Tebow running too often or holding onto the ball too long has a lot to do with the style of offense he played in. He played in a pretty straightforward offense where he had a handful of quick options to look for and if he didn't find something he liked, he could run. That's not what's going to be asked of him in a pro style offense where he'll have multiple options, taught to stay in there and try to find the open player, and make decisions based on what he sees rather than what he has set before him prior to the play. For a lot of guys this is something that is a huge concern because since they haven't played in that style of offense before, people wonder if they have the ability to pick it up in the Pros...but considering that the strongest point of Tebow's game is that he has a very high football IQ and is therefore more likely to pick up to smaller things in a Pro Style Offense.

I still think that people are arguing too much out of the idea that he hasn't therefore he can't which is so ridiculously flawed reasoning that it's hardly even worth talking about. Until he shows that he has trouble with that at the next level and CAN'T do a lot of the things people question, it makes little sense to assume he can't just because he wasn't really asked to in college.


On the flip side of that argument, he has to show that he CAN do the things people question. ;-D


Agreed...but it seems as though people right now are more interested in jumping on the anti-Tebow bandwagon and assuming he can't before they even see him do anything in the league. If he really has and can consistently cut down the time on that release and can hit his spots in the NFL, then there's no reason he can't be a very solid QB in this league with the rest of his tools he has at his disposal. I just feel like everyone is getting too caught up in the hype that Tebow just can't make it as a pro.
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Re: Wilson: Broncos 'panicked' with Tebow pick

Postby biju » Mon May 10, 2010 2:30 pm

mattb47 wrote:Agreed...but it seems as though people right now are more interested in jumping on the anti-Tebow bandwagon and assuming he can't before they even see him do anything in the league. If he really has and can consistently cut down the time on that release and can hit his spots in the NFL, then there's no reason he can't be a very solid QB in this league with the rest of his tools he has at his disposal. I just feel like everyone is getting too caught up in the hype that Tebow just can't make it as a pro.


Meh, I think people are just simply repeating the talking heads points more than anything. Without these reports most people would see the win record and his stats and probably be excited to see what he can do in the NFL.

I think there are certain measurables he'll need to improve or work around to have success. The fact that he's hard working is a fantastic plus. The fact that he's trying to change his mechanics is another. It shows that he's willing to do whatever he needs to get it done. Will and hard work will go a long way. Athleticism takes it that much further.

For me and my stupidly long list of questions, I'm always more concerned when players who have had great success have done so without much adversity. If, and most likely when, he has early struggles how will he respond? There's been so much criticism of him that if he has problems and people start saying "I told you so" it takes an immensely strong person to not begin to question themselves in one way or another. To do so is human although many people (especially those who have won all their lives, often because of their talent) don't fully recover that confidence and seem to struggle. Joey Harrington (and no, I'm not comparing him to Tebow, just the loss of confidence) comes to mind. To overcome those thoughts is different however and that's what I need to see. Only time will really tell.

Personally I think he will *eventually* succeed and possibly become a serviceable starter, but that's quite a few years away and I doubt he'll ever be an elite QB...

EDIT: The bolded statement used to read "never", but I meant to say that I do NOT believe he'll be an elite QB.
Last edited by biju on Mon May 10, 2010 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wilson: Broncos 'panicked' with Tebow pick

Postby da bears » Mon May 10, 2010 4:55 pm

I just don't see how his game translates without a complete overhaul and even when that happens I think it's crazy to think that means he'll be successful. The game is a LOT faster and no more read option/having superior talent around him. You can come to the same conclusions as the experts by watching a guy play for 4 years, I don't know what others saw watching him that I'm missing. Also pretty sure the pro Tebow crowd here is reiterating what experts who are pro Tebow have stated about his work ethic and desire to succeed, same thing different side of the argument. This thread should be locked for 4 years cause I doubt we'll be able to say anything definitive before that. As far as the pick goes, Denver picked a QB in the 1st round(paying him 2nd QB taken $$$) that is going to require a couple years to possibly develop an under center game, that sounds more like a 3rd-4th round pick to me if that.
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Re: Wilson: Broncos 'panicked' with Tebow pick

Postby mattb47 » Mon May 10, 2010 9:00 pm

da bears wrote:I just don't see how his game translates without a complete overhaul and even when that happens I think it's crazy to think that means he'll be successful. The game is a LOT faster and no more read option/having superior talent around him. You can come to the same conclusions as the experts by watching a guy play for 4 years, I don't know what others saw watching him that I'm missing. Also pretty sure the pro Tebow crowd here is reiterating what experts who are pro Tebow have stated about his work ethic and desire to succeed, same thing different side of the argument. This thread should be locked for 4 years cause I doubt we'll be able to say anything definitive before that. As far as the pick goes, Denver picked a QB in the 1st round(paying him 2nd QB taken $$$) that is going to require a couple years to possibly develop an under center game, that sounds more like a 3rd-4th round pick to me if that.


Disagree pretty much on all fronts...but like you said, this debate is pointless right now. I think you are showing your continued pessimism though by saying it will take him that long to develop but to each his own...I think he'll be starting by the 2011-2012 season.
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Re: Wilson: Broncos 'panicked' with Tebow pick

Postby da bears » Mon May 10, 2010 9:45 pm

I could see him starting by then also, doubt he'll be fully ready. He'll likely start 2011-2012 if Denver has a down year this season cause McDaniels will start getting questioned and be forced to play his guy. Fine line between pessimism and just not liking what you saw of someone for 3 years.
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Re: Wilson: Broncos 'panicked' with Tebow pick

Postby Free Bagel » Tue May 11, 2010 9:23 am

da bears wrote:And Bazzy the UF system does throw a lot of short passes off the read option, he really never had to fit the ball in small windows during college. His receivers ran free a LOT.


Without getting dragged into yet another Tebow debate, I think you have a very large misconception of how the Florida offense worked, especially in 2009.
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