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Oil in the Gulf

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Re: Oil in the Gulf

Postby knapplc » Tue Jun 22, 2010 6:51 pm

If we're going to be mad at a president, let's get the full list of culprits:

Carter
Reagan
Bush I
Clinton
Bush II
Obama

This is your list of people to be pissed at, presidentially speaking. Why? Because this exact same thing happened in 1979, with exactly the same results, and no president then (Carter) or since (all the rest) has forced Big Oil into creating a disaster plan capable of dealing with this situation.

The US Government is not and should not be responsible for fixing this problem. The government should provide oversight and some ass-kicking to get this thing fixed. The oil companies that earn billions of dollars in profits per quarter should pay for the R&D to clean up messes like this, and they should have swift-responding teams in place and ready to go in these eventualities.

Blaming Obama is simplistic and unrealistic. Put the blame where it belongs and stop being distracted from the real problem and the real culprits.
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Re: Oil in the Gulf

Postby Metroid » Tue Jun 22, 2010 6:57 pm

Word knapp.

And in case it was missed, here is the link to that video again that compares the disaster you just mentioned and the one today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9A36A3GTcY
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Re: Oil in the Gulf

Postby Nfl Fan » Tue Jun 22, 2010 11:35 pm

Metroid wrote:Now if you want to say that Obama should get the brightest scientists and engineers from major universities to weigh in, I'd say that maybe you have a case. Sadly I still I have a hard time believing there would be much difference since big oil employs some of the brightest scientists and engineers.


Honestly, though I didn't state it too well, I meant that. Get the brightest, most educated, most experienced people with expertise in the field all together and solve this problem. It's a biggie. We do not have a choice.

Fixing a leaking oil well two miles under water is not an easy task, which is exactly why we should not be drilling for oil in the ocean. It's that simple.


I've never seemed to make sense of that either. It sure seems like there are easier places to go to satisfy our thirst for the stuff.

Here's the thing. Please hear me. I am probably NOT the most rational person in the Cafe as it pertains to this subject. I grew up in Anchorage, Alaska. I spent hundreds of hours with my family in the Prince William Sound. Fishing, crabbing, sightseeing, and simply enjoying the greatness of a tremendously beautiful land. Alaskans love the land and endure the hardships of living there because the land is so wild, so free, and so beautiful.

When the Exxon-Valdez spilled 10 million gallons of crude in there, it broke my heart. It was devestating to me as well as other Alaskans and millions of people worldwide. We wept over our great sound. THIS disaster evokes some very deep-seeded emotions. Problem is... I can't do a damn thing about it. Neither can you. Yet, IT HAS TO BE FIXED! There is no choice. So who do we look to? Do we look to BP as they fumble-fart their way around this? Well, as much as I hope they fix it, they are not invoking a whole lot of confidence. How about our President who ran for office as a problem solver? Well... actually... yes, I do. BP is failing. I'm looking to President Obama and I expect more than we're getting. I don't expect him to don a wetsuit and go down there, but I do expect him to give 200% to the issue. I expect action and I expect solutions. I do not trust BP to get this done, and this thing will not just go away!

So far, I'm not seeing the solutions or concern that I expect.
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Re: Oil in the Gulf

Postby knapplc » Wed Jun 23, 2010 7:44 am

Is there an industrial disaster that would not ultimately fall to the lap of the president? If we're going to castigate Obama for not fixing this problem, where do we stop? Wouldn't that mean that any industrial disaster, if not taken care of by the company, would ultimately fall to the president to fix?

I just don't see the government's role like that. And frankly, I don't want the government taking that much responsibility. They take too much already.

The role of the government has to be playground monitor, not hands-on doer, unless we're talking war. Then I'm all for the government getting involved rather than private industry. Aside from conflict, government needs to stay the hell out of direct involvement and act in an oversight capacity.

The government's role in this situation needs to be the spur to the horse, not the horse. And they need to be the corral, keeping BP/Halliburton/whomever else is involved in line. They also need to be the glue factory, punishing (perhaps ultimately) the perpetrators of this problem. But hands-on, in the water fixing the leak? That's not the government's job.
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Re: Oil in the Gulf

Postby Nfl Fan » Wed Jun 23, 2010 8:32 am

First Knapp (if you're commenting on my post) I didn't say it's the government's job to fix it. I wouldn't rule it out, however. This thing is gushing out upwards of 4 million gallons of crude oil per day. This thing HAS TO be stopped. Suppose for a minute that BP is not able to stop the leak? Then what? Nothing? Wait and hope? As the 'spur on the horse'... Obama has not taken the pro-active roll that you would suggest either. In order for him to be the spur, he needs to mount up and grab the reins. Sadly, I see more of a 'deer-in-the-headlights' thing. Another case of him being vastly overemployed, or maybe just incredibly disinterested.
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Re: Oil in the Gulf

Postby knapplc » Wed Jun 23, 2010 8:56 am

Nfl Fan wrote:First Knapp (if you're commenting on my post) I didn't say it's the government's job to fix it. I wouldn't rule it out, however. This thing is gushing out upwards of 4 million gallons of crude oil per day. This thing HAS TO be stopped. Suppose for a minute that BP is not able to stop the leak? Then what? Nothing? Wait and hope? As the 'spur on the horse'... Obama has not taken the pro-active roll that you would suggest either. In order for him to be the spur, he needs to mount up and grab the reins. Sadly, I see more of a 'deer-in-the-headlights' thing. Another case of him being vastly overemployed, or maybe just incredibly disinterested.


The two lines in bold conflict. Clearly you do think it's Obama's job to fix this, and clearly his efforts aren't good enough for you. The problem is that you're not paying attention on how these things get fixed. There is only ONE WAY to fix this spill, and BP is doing that right now - drill a relief well and take pressure off this gusher so that it can be capped. Until that's done, and ONLY until that's done, oil will continue to spew into the Gulf, and there is nothing anyone short of God can do to stop that.

Obama cannot make the drill go faster. Obama cannot go back in time and force BP and all other offshore drillers to put relief wells in place already. Obama cannot wish any of this away, nor is there a magic wand he could go on a quest to find and use to make everything roses and daisies again.

There isn't a president in the history of this country who could fix this problem. Not Roosevelt, not Reagan, not Washington, not Bush (either one). It is not in their power to fix, it is not their responsibility to fix, and it is not in their jurisdiction to impose penalties - except when the spill afflicts the nation's waters and shores, which Obama is doing.

This bitching at Obama is partisan politics and it sickens me. I spent half of the last president's time in office debunking the nonsense from the Dems and Liberals as they flung slings and arrows at Bush II, and here I am again, debunking the nonsense flung at Obama by the Republicans and Conservatives. I get so tired of talking sense to people who will not use sense. I'll just about guarantee that I have to go through all this again when __________ disaster/attack/crisis strikes the next president, whether he/she is Republican or Democrat. Bah. :-t
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Re: Oil in the Gulf

Postby Metroid » Wed Jun 23, 2010 9:17 am

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the only way a leak like this has ever been stopped it by drilling relief wells. Guess who knows how to drill relief wells? BP. And you want to take this out of their hands? Obama has never drilled a well and I guarantee no one on his staff has drilled a well. BP caused this mess and they have to be responsible to stop it and clean it up. Swooping in and dismissing BP will only exacerbate the problem. Like I said, any other oil company would be doing the same thing if facing this situation.

What I don't get is what people are expecting Obama to do exactly? It really just sounds like people want to be mad at him over this. As knapp said earlier you need to redirect your anger at those directly responsible: BP, Cameron Drilling & Production Systems, Halliburton, and TransOcean. Again, if you want to be mad at Obama for this, you have to be mad at every president since Carter who has allowed it to be business as usual for big oil. And while you're at it, if you drive a car that uses gasoline, heat your home through the use of fossil fuels, buy your food in the grocery store, etc. you can be mad at yourself as well for supporting the companies who are responsible for this. That makes you indirectly responsible as well. In a way, we're all responsible for this mess.
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Re: Oil in the Gulf

Postby knapplc » Wed Jun 23, 2010 9:32 am

One more thing about Obama - even if you think he's completely unqualified to be President, you'd have to admit that not all of Washington, or even all of the Democratic Party, are complete incompetents. Therefore you'd have to think that someone in the Dem party somewhere would be able to locate and employ the top minds of the world to fix this leak if it were possible.

The Governor of Louisiana is Republican, and you'd think he'd have his party's machine in high gear to get this thing fixed, too. They could be assembling their own team of highly trained experts and forging ahead with their own efforts, or at the least making recommendations to the imbecile in the White House who has no idea what to do.... but they're not.

Why is that? Is Louisiana's governor content to let his coastal regions and all those fishers and shrimpers lose their livelihood and the taxes that go with it? Or is it more logical to assume that there is only one way to fix this, and that's to drill a relief well and then cap the gusher, which takes months to do and is already in progress?
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Re: Oil in the Gulf

Postby stomperrob » Wed Jun 23, 2010 11:08 am

Try putting a wedding band around it - guaranteed to make it stop putting out! ;-)
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Re: Oil in the Gulf

Postby scottaa1 » Wed Jun 23, 2010 11:30 am

Ladies and Gentlemen, Stomper:

stomperrob wrote:Try putting a wedding band around it - guaranteed to make it stop putting out! ;-)
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