Hey guys - like I said, I'm not the most rational person around as it pertains to this. This is a very emotional issue for me. You (Knapp and Met) make some sound and well heard points. For me, after what we went through in our beloved Prince William Sound, this is like re-opening an old wound. It was tremendously painful back then and it's like getting kicked in the stomach right now.
I am not blaming the President for this, and I never said that he should take over operations as suggested. I simply stated as the basis of my argument that gathering a room full of experts together to discuss possible solutions seems to be a good idea.
You've stated that relief wells are the ONLY solution. So why did they ever try to plug it in the first place if attempting to do so were a complete and utter waste of time? Maybe there are other possibilities. I'm simply suggesting that this be a priority and EVERY possible solution be brought to the table. What I'm hearing is, "well... gosh... it's BP's problem and they have to fix it." True. But what if they can't? What if it takes too long? What if they fail? And... what if there are other possibilities? There are some awfully brilliant people in this world. Imagine a room full of them creating new scenarios and possible solutions?
As it is, I'm not seeing much more than.... "Hey BP, fix it and clean it."
Yo, Met... thanks for the sig! GO DUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just read where there's a bunch of oil showing up in Florida now.
What if they took a derelict old submarine and scuttled it right on top of that pipe? Smoosh it down there, then fill the innards of the ship with concrete for extra weight. Maybe it's not a permanent fix, but it could possibly slow the flow down.
EDIT - the purpose of this would be to slow/stop (probably just slow) the flow until the relief well could be dug. I suppose this would make it harder to ultimately cap the well, but it could also be a fix.
knapplc wrote:Just read where there's a bunch of oil showing up in Florida now.
What if they took a derelict old submarine and scuttled it right on top of that pipe? Smoosh it down there, then fill the innards of the ship with concrete for extra weight. Maybe it's not a permanent fix, but it could possibly slow the flow down.
EDIT - the purpose of this would be to slow/stop (probably just slow) the flow until the relief well could be dug. I suppose this would make it harder to ultimately cap the well, but it could also be a fix.
Anyone have Washington's number? Or BP's?
THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!!!!!!!!!!!!! ( ......we will be sure to include Knapplc on that panel of brilliant men and woman...... )
It actually sounds like a pretty good idea.
Yo, Met... thanks for the sig! GO DUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cowboys 4 life wrote:Obama is failing on this one. Our turn.
What should Obama be doing?
Well, it is more the people he has put in the positions of authority and decision making, so it is not specifically his fault. He does however need to take the blaime for that lack of decent response from the government since it is his people making the decisions. I do not blaime him for the spill itself just the response. The government regulation put the government in charge of any response to this kind of disaster.and our government has failed miserably. Two specific things come to mind.
1. just a few days after the initial explosion, the governer of LA asked to be allowed to build berms a couple miles off the coast. He didn't not get any response (yes or no) until he just said screw it I'm doing it. Then he is made to stop last week becuase of some stupid fish. Geeesh. So save the fish and kill all those other animals on the land.
2. The Coast Guard last week shuting down the dreging barges, that by the way were working pretty well, because of a lack of the proper fire extinguishers. Geesh. Tell them to get the fire extinguishers on the barges by the end of the day and keep working.
I could come up with a couple more items if I thought about it for a while, but those were 2 that came to mind when I read the inital post.
You could think of government workers like teenagers. You pay them an allowance, but do you get any work out them? They eat the food, put their feet on the furniture and complain loudly whenever they are unhappy.
The same thing the Dems/Libs/Socialists/commies said Bush should have done. React quicker.
How long should oil spill into the gulf before the President gets involved? This is serious.
React how? In what way?
It's easy to say, "React quicker," but when the Feds aren't set up to handle this kind of relief, it's a sticky wicket. The Feds, and specifically FEMA, are purpose-built to respond to disasters like Katrina. They have plans in place to do so, but Bush just sat on his hands and farted around while New Orleans and environs withered away. No president, whether that be Obama or Bush II or Clinton or Reagan or whomever, has ever had a specific plan in place for this eventuality. They can't plan for every industrial disaster, and they shouldn't have to.
Blaming Obama for this is like blaming you when my sister gets knocked up by her stupid boyfriend. You're associated with me through the Cafe, but you have no responsibility to clean up the mess my family creates.
PS - I am neither a Dem nor a Liberal nor a Commie nor a Socialist, but I still think Obama is doing OK and Bush was an idiot - and I'm also the guy who was defending Bush when people were ripping him a new one.
You should try not being a Republican or a Democrat and join us Moderates who will eventually rule the world. Partisan politics and the BS it entails is stupid and wasteful and distracts us from the real problems we face. Obama is no better and no worse than Bush; both have their abilities and their failings, and acting against them like the party wants you to act doesn't help anything.
See my previous post knapp. The government by statute is resposible for taking charge in these cases. I am an EHS professional and have delt wiht environmental issue in the past and know what the rules are as far as who is supposed to be in charge. The to examples I put in my previous post. for #1 Gov Jindel sdhould have gotten a quick answer regarding those berms. Yes or no. Not had to wait for 40+ days. should have had an answer in less than 24 hours IMO.
Question number 2 I answered.
I am not blaiming the adminstration for the spill. That is the people doing the drilling's fault, just the organization of the response. The spill is BP and the other 3 companies fault no doubt about it. The piss poor response id the adminstrations fault. And I agree the response if W's adminstration to Katrina was just as bad.
You could think of government workers like teenagers. You pay them an allowance, but do you get any work out them? They eat the food, put their feet on the furniture and complain loudly whenever they are unhappy.
Nfl Fan wrote: Here's what I wish would have happened:
Within a few days of the outbreak of this disaster, the President and his men should have sat around a table with experts in this industry. Experts from Shell, Exxon, Chevron and the rest. People who know about offshore drilling and the machinery. Technicians and engineers, etc. Get ideas out on the table from varied sources who know the most about what is going on. Decide on a course of action, formulate a plan, and execute!
It wasn't considered a disaster within a few days of the leak starting. There was no reason to react to it as such. And the President's job isn't to react/overreact/underreact to the problems faced by businesses as they go about their daily work. Laissez-faire, unless you're big auto . Could they have responded sooner in light of BP's failed attempts? Yeah, I'm on board with you there, it shouldn't have lingered THIS long.
For as long as the world has been drilling and shipping oil, and with the mishaps that have occurred, and in glaring particular of the money involved, it seems like there's not nearly enough research-->tech-->tools for oil spill recovery/cleanup.
The only people who thought that was not going to be a huge disater were people who had no clue about the oil industry. worked in the industry for 15 years. I knew the was going to be bad when I first heard that it happened.
You could think of government workers like teenagers. You pay them an allowance, but do you get any work out them? They eat the food, put their feet on the furniture and complain loudly whenever they are unhappy.
Metroid wrote:Things wouldn't be any different today if Obama had gotten all the brightest minds from big oil all in one room the day after the spill. Those people don't know jack about how to stop oil leaks 2 miles under water any more today than they did 30 years ago. Did you guys watch the video I posted earlier in the thread? The only, ONLY way oil leaks from sea drilling have ever been stopped is by drilling relief wells, which takes months to do and is what I'm sure BP is doing right now. When stuff like this happens, people have to get pissed off at someone, that someone is always the president. Be mad at him if you want but there is absolutely nothing he could have done early on to lessen the impact of this disaster.
If you want to be mad at anyone, be mad at the greedy politicians who even after this catastrophic disaster will allow these oil companies to continue to keep drilling on the ocean floor. That's the reason you should be mad at Obama and the like.
We actually don't know if things would be better if Obama had gotten people together when it first happened. Maybe maybe not. The most dangerous time for an envirnmental problem is during the time of trying to stop drilling in the middle of drilling a hole. And the deep water drilling is a pretty new technology and this is the first major issue. All the planned ways to deal with this spill had never been tied so nobody knew if the things that had been put together would work. Yes absolutely this is really messed up. But to make the other platforms to stop put everyone of them at risk of the same thing. Just in case you all didn't know, this well was in the proccess of being shut down when the spill occurred.
Acctually the impact of the disaster could have been lessened on the LA coast had Gov Jindal gotten his answer about the berms quickly instead of waiting 40+ days and then olny after he said he was going to do it anyway.
DRill Baby Drill.
One more point. unless we want to go back to the days of the horse and bugy, then the oil we use for everything must be pulled up from under the earth's crust. At least until we find some other energy to replace the oil.
I personnaly think we need to keep pulling the oil up from where ever it is and also continue to investigate other forms of energy. all of them. when we find something that will be plentiful and economical then we stop drilling and use that.
You could think of government workers like teenagers. You pay them an allowance, but do you get any work out them? They eat the food, put their feet on the furniture and complain loudly whenever they are unhappy.
Th industry is at fault for the spill. until the investigation is completed I will reserve my judgement on which on of the companies deservwe most of the credit for the spill.
The adminstration deserves most of the blame for the pisspoor response to the spill. It is the government who is responsable for organizing the response, that is was the federal regulation require. They don't do it all themselves but are responsible for making sure that it gets done. all you have to do is read the 2 EPA regulations called CERCLA, and SARA.
With the next statement I am not trying to minimize this situation. when you have any technology which requires the use on mechanical equipment there will be failures. In this case there were failures with many redundant systems which is IMO unacceptable and the companies involved need to answer for it. However, never in the past when the same kind of thing happened was there a blanket oh crap we need to shut down the industry, and the courts remidied that. The new potential oil drilling ban (if it ends up as stated) is a perportional response IMO. It stops drilling in the similar situations as this spill until a review has been done. It will allow the continued drilling in the already discovered oil fields and only limits exploritory drilling as is the case with the hole that was being drilled in the spill. the platforms drilling simlar wells will continue to be shut down and those drilling in known situations will be allowed to continue.
My last comment is our politians need to STFU regarding oh lets blame these people and the industry needs to do the same. get the freakin spill fixed and cleaned up, then worry about who to blame. Fixing the spill is the responsibility of the industry, the clean up belongs to the government.
You could think of government workers like teenagers. You pay them an allowance, but do you get any work out them? They eat the food, put their feet on the furniture and complain loudly whenever they are unhappy.
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by Nfl Fan » Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:50 pm 
. Could they have responded sooner in light of BP's failed attempts? Yeah, I'm on board with you there, it shouldn't have lingered THIS long. 
