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Somebody explain to me why non-PPR still exists?

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Re: Somebody explain to me why non-PPR still exists?

Postby Kareighuis » Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:24 pm

dgan wrote:Furthermore, I am confused every time I hear "RBs are way too valuable in non-PPR". Why does no one point to the clear devaluation of QBs in just about any fantasy format? If you really want to equal the value of the positions, you should do something with QB rather than WR. When players can draft 2 RBs, 3 WRs, and a TE, and with their 7th round pick still get the 9th rated QB in the league, something is wrong.



Good point. Now that the NFL is becoming a QB-driven league, why are they so devalued in FF? Leagues that allow 4 pts/TD and -2 per interception virtually guarantee that I won't play in them.
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Re: Somebody explain to me why non-PPR still exists?

Postby buffalobillsrul2002 » Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:01 pm

I like .5 PPR. There is some value in guys getting catches and moving the ball up the field. However, 1 PPR way overvalues it. I like the idea for scoring first downs as well, that's kind of the idea behind PPR imo.
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Re: Somebody explain to me why non-PPR still exists?

Postby dgan » Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:35 pm

buffalobillsrul2002 wrote:I like .5 PPR. There is some value in guys getting catches and moving the ball up the field. However, 1 PPR way overvalues it. I like the idea for scoring first downs as well, that's kind of the idea behind PPR imo.


The problem is that a catch has nothing to do with a first down. You can catch for 0 yds, 10 yds, or 75 yds...it is still just 0.5? You are adding -0- value to the impact of the catch. You are only adding value that he caught the ball. Again, a 0 yard catch has the same game impact as the QB throwing the ball away into the sidelines. Why are you rewarding for that?

The argument against PPR is this only: It does not equate to actual game impact. That's it. All we want is for PPR fans to admit that it is an arbitrary stat used for the sole purpose of artificially inflating the value of WRs and the receiving RBs.

We (meaning non-PPR people) don't care if you like PPR. Just don't tell us it is because "there is value in catching the ball". Only if you gain yards in the process of catching the ball is there real life value. The only time catching the ball for 0 yds has value is when the coach stupidly calls a pass play when you are trying to run out the clock. So if you want to add PPR in that situation, that would correlate to making sense I suppose. Any other situation, it is entirely meaningless.
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Re: Somebody explain to me why non-PPR still exists?

Postby DemonDeacon » Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:28 am

what about making RB PPR = 1 pt and WRs PPR = .5pt? keep the elite pass catching RB's up a bit on the ppr machines
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Re: Somebody explain to me why non-PPR still exists?

Postby Kareighuis » Tue Aug 17, 2010 2:04 am

DemonDeacon wrote:what about making RB PPR = 1 pt and WRs PPR = .5pt? keep the elite pass catching RB's up a bit on the ppr machines


I've proposed that to some of my leagues, but some seem to think that's too complicated.

It's why I think PPR is meant for the casual fan- they can't tolerate anything but he simplest scoring systems.
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Re: Somebody explain to me why non-PPR still exists?

Postby murphysxm » Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:48 am

Kareighuis wrote:
DemonDeacon wrote:what about making RB PPR = 1 pt and WRs PPR = .5pt? keep the elite pass catching RB's up a bit on the ppr machines


I've proposed that to some of my leagues, but some seem to think that's too complicated.

It's why I think PPR is meant for the casual fan- they can't tolerate anything but he simplest scoring systems.



I really don't see this one. How is a scoring format that has extra scoring opportunities a simpler format than one that doesn't have PPR? I don't think either are hard, just different.

I'm not really trying to bag on standard, I just don't prefer it. I like that I have more ways to build a team rather than having to have elite RB's or I am at a big deficit.

I also disagree about QB's being de-valued. If you gave QB's 10 pts for TD's, there still would be good value in the 10th round. They already score more points than any other position, they go late because of position scarcity. There are starting QB's not even drafted, but 4th string RB's that are drafted. Why use an early round pick on say Brady in the 3rd, when you can get Flacco in the 10th. You lose 5-6 points a week, but more than make that up with the WR or RB taken in the 3rd. I'd rather start Pieere Thomas and Joe Flacco over Tom Brady and Michael Bush any day of the week.
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Re: Somebody explain to me why non-PPR still exists?

Postby shawngee03 » Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:00 am

ive never been a fan of thinking about stats and points in respect to the actual game. its fantasy sports...not real sports

imo...adding some sort of ppr(i prefer 0.5 ppr) adds more fun to my enjoyment of playing this "game". i find it boring when i only get 60 points a week

true..a catch really doesnt mean anything...yards gained and points scored mean stuff. kind of like a strikeout in baseball...who cares how the out was gotten..so why is a K so important in fantasy baseball.....bc its a stat that is easily seen and counted for and acrued...so its added to the game

this is how i see catches....something that is easily seen and counted...so lets add a cat for it

'fantasy' sports do not have to mimic real life sports...its a game...i say make it more enjoyable. and again...to me, scoring more points is enjoyable
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Re: Somebody explain to me why non-PPR still exists?

Postby CRob44 » Tue Aug 17, 2010 3:05 pm

actually ppr 1 pt for rb makes rb more valuable,, not less
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Re: Somebody explain to me why non-PPR still exists?

Postby buffalobillsrul2002 » Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:50 pm

dgan wrote:
buffalobillsrul2002 wrote:I like .5 PPR. There is some value in guys getting catches and moving the ball up the field. However, 1 PPR way overvalues it. I like the idea for scoring first downs as well, that's kind of the idea behind PPR imo.


The problem is that a catch has nothing to do with a first down. You can catch for 0 yds, 10 yds, or 75 yds...it is still just 0.5? You are adding -0- value to the impact of the catch. You are only adding value that he caught the ball. Again, a 0 yard catch has the same game impact as the QB throwing the ball away into the sidelines. Why are you rewarding for that?

The argument against PPR is this only: It does not equate to actual game impact. That's it. All we want is for PPR fans to admit that it is an arbitrary stat used for the sole purpose of artificially inflating the value of WRs and the receiving RBs.

We (meaning non-PPR people) don't care if you like PPR. Just don't tell us it is because "there is value in catching the ball". Only if you gain yards in the process of catching the ball is there real life value. The only time catching the ball for 0 yds has value is when the coach stupidly calls a pass play when you are trying to run out the clock. So if you want to add PPR in that situation, that would correlate to making sense I suppose. Any other situation, it is entirely meaningless.


Agreed that there's no value in a 0-yard catch. But there's more value in 2 10-yard catches than 1 20-yard catch. Hence PPR. But a full PPR is a little high; I like half or maybe a little less...
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Re: Somebody explain to me why non-PPR still exists?

Postby dgan » Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:10 pm

buffalobillsrul2002 wrote:
Agreed that there's no value in a 0-yard catch. But there's more value in 2 10-yard catches than 1 20-yard catch. Hence PPR. But a full PPR is a little high; I like half or maybe a little less...


See, I disagree. You're on the 50. 3rd and 10. Andre Johnson catches a 20 yard pass. Follow that up with 3 incomplete passes. 47 yd FG.

You're on the 50. 3rd and 10. Kenny Britt catches a 10 yard pass. 2 incomplete passes. 3rd and 10. Kenny Britt catches another 10 yard pass. 3 incomplete passes. 47 yd FG.

Kenny Britt gets more points?

The idea that "moving the chains" is more valuable than big plays doesn't make sense to me. Yardage and scoring are the only two things that matter in football. Running a play has no value, be it an attempted pass, completed pass, rushing attempt, etc... OK, maybe a first down should be rewarded?

3rd and 2. Donald Driver catches a 4 yard pass.

3rd and 15. Calvin Johnson catches a 14 yard pass.

Equal value? ONLY IF Green Bay gets ANOTHER first down. If they don't, Calvin Johnson had the more productive play!

Again, I'm not a PPR basher. I'm just annoyed by the "catching the ball helps the team". Shawngee has the argument I'm looking for.

ive never been a fan of thinking about stats and points in respect to the actual game. its fantasy sports...not real sports


If that is your mindset, then play PPR to your hearts content. I just enjoy watching things happening on the field to equate to things happening in fantasy. Even "garbage time" yardage feels unnatural to me. A couple times a year, you find yourself watching a blowout Monday night game hoping your running back gets a couple more carries. Even that aspect of fantasy football seems weird to me, but their is nothing to be done about that.

I know it isn't real. But I like to keep it as close to real as I can get it. Isn't that why 2QB leagues are so unpopular? Because a "real NFL team doesn't start 2 QBs"? So the logic on this topic just confuses the heck out of me all the time.
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