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Re: Pierre Garcon

Postby joejlitz » Sun Aug 29, 2010 2:04 pm

Goose wrote:
bazzy_51 wrote:Where he is going in drafts is way, WAY to rich for my blood given his situation. I mean Indy is a gun slinging team, but come on there aren't enough plays in one given game to make anyone but Wayne and Clark worth their draft positions. When you look at the fact that they have to get balls to Wayne, Clark, Garcon, Collie, a now healthy Gonzalez AND still get both Addai and Brown touches out of the backfield you can't possibly tell me that Garcon is worth the essentially WR3 slot hes being drafted for.

Don't get me wrong Garcon is a fine young talent, but when you have that many options its hard to spread it out.

EDIT: If I were to take any of the 3 WR, outside of Wayne or Clark, it would be Anthony Gonzalez. He has a draft value of basically a sleeper pick in the late rounds to take a chance that now that hes back healthy him and Peyton will connect again. On average in dynasty leagues hes being taken as the #53 overall WR (compared to Garcon's #33) and in re-drafts as the #68WR (compared to Garcon's #30).


Agree with the above--especially the thoughts about grabbing Gonzalez as a late round value pick--- except that I also feel Wayne is overvalued in drafts. His production is and has been slipping and quite frankly there was minimal difference between Wayne and Garcon. Wayne is a low-end WR2 at best in my book and there are plenty of WR options out there more likely to produce value week in and week out. The best receiving option for consistent points on this roster is Clark.

Wayne had 1264 yards, 100 catches, and 10 TDs, all better numbers than in 2008. How is that slipping?
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Re: Pierre Garcon

Postby B3N1ZJAM1N » Sun Aug 29, 2010 3:43 pm

So I'll ask the question...Is garcon worth a pickup on FA? or a draft pick?
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Re: Pierre Garcon

Postby bazzy_51 » Sun Aug 29, 2010 3:53 pm

B3N1ZJAM1N wrote:So I'll ask the question...Is garcon worth a pickup on FA? or a draft pick?


Garcon is worth owning for sure. The original question was his ADP, not wether he was worth owning, but guess you didn't read all the posts? Anyways Garcon should not be a FA, and as far as draft position goes in my eyes he would be drafted by me in the mid-late 7th-8th round in a 12 teamer. But by then hes probably already gone.
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Re: Pierre Garcon

Postby B3N1ZJAM1N » Sun Aug 29, 2010 5:54 pm

bazzy_51 wrote:
B3N1ZJAM1N wrote:So I'll ask the question...Is garcon worth a pickup on FA? or a draft pick?


Garcon is worth owning for sure. The original question was his ADP, not wether he was worth owning, but guess you didn't read all the posts? Anyways Garcon should not be a FA, and as far as draft position goes in my eyes he would be drafted by me in the mid-late 7th-8th round in a 12 teamer. But by then hes probably already gone.


Yes I read all the posts. That doesn't mean I can't ask a question that somewhat doesn't follow the 1st post. haha.
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Re: Pierre Garcon

Postby Goose » Sun Aug 29, 2010 7:46 pm

GUYS, SORRY! My total bad--I had meant to type low-end WR1!!! Obviously going back now and editing the earlier post would be unfair to the two forum members that called me out on it, so I will note the error here. For the sake of clarity, my 2010 WR rankings (non ppr):
1. Andre Johnson
2. Randy Moss
3. Calvin Johnson
4. Roddy White
5. Miles Austin
6. Brandon Marshall
7. Chad Ochocinco
8. Reggie Wayne
9. Anquan Boldin
10. Greg Jennings
11. DeSean Jackson
12. Marques Colston
Obviously, this list itself is not without controversy, but that's part of the fun of picking teams. *NOTE: Had Vincent Jackson been participating fully in camp and slated to start for SD, I would have had him 7th. A healthy Sindey Rice + Favre would have landed Rice 8th.
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Re: Pierre Garcon

Postby Guru13 » Sun Aug 29, 2010 8:37 pm

Just out of curiosity, whats the reason for Ocho so high?
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Re: Pierre Garcon

Postby Goose » Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:34 pm

I project Ocho 1100+ yds and 9+ TDs due to Cincinatti having a viable TE, T.O. and Shipley et al. in the slot. Much has been and is being written about the "looks" T.O. is getting preseason; however, the feedback from the Bengals and Palmer is that Ocho is at another level vs. where he has been in prior years. Yet, looking at his stats from last year, Ocho generally put up consistent #s week to week with an inferior supporting cast and a less confident Palmer. What is key is I am not saying a team has to draft Ocho before the other guys on the list go off the board; rather, I feel he can provide great value as mid to low WR1 due to his being available in the draft where the higher end WR2's start going. Also, keep in mind that part of the reason Ocho is as high also has to do with some other top receivers, namely Vincent Jackson, essentially being in limbo.

I feel similarly about Greg Jennings. Many could question his position on the list also and with valid reasons. However, I feel the current Green Bay offense will be utterly explosive and that their line will better protect AR allowing him to throw the ball downfield to a greater degree than last year. Hence, Jennings' stock rises with me. Jeremichael Finley adds a downfield and red zone threat and will claim many touches, but I am betting those come from Donald Driver (compare Driver's historic red zone targets to Jennings' and decide from whom the TE will steal) while the threat of Finley and Driver ultimately yield big yardage and 7-10 TDs for Jennings.
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Re: Pierre Garcon

Postby Guru13 » Mon Aug 30, 2010 4:23 pm

Goose wrote:I project Ocho 1100+ yds and 9+ TDs due to Cincinatti having a viable TE, T.O. and Shipley et al. in the slot. Much has been and is being written about the "looks" T.O. is getting preseason; however, the feedback from the Bengals and Palmer is that Ocho is at another level vs. where he has been in prior years. Yet, looking at his stats from last year, Ocho generally put up consistent #s week to week with an inferior supporting cast and a less confident Palmer. What is key is I am not saying a team has to draft Ocho before the other guys on the list go off the board; rather, I feel he can provide great value as mid to low WR1 due to his being available in the draft where the higher end WR2's start going. Also, keep in mind that part of the reason Ocho is as high also has to do with some other top receivers, namely Vincent Jackson, essentially being in limbo.

I feel similarly about Greg Jennings. Many could question his position on the list also and with valid reasons. However, I feel the current Green Bay offense will be utterly explosive and that their line will better protect AR allowing him to throw the ball downfield to a greater degree than last year. Hence, Jennings' stock rises with me. Jeremichael Finley adds a downfield and red zone threat and will claim many touches, but I am betting those come from Donald Driver (compare Driver's historic red zone targets to Jennings' and decide from whom the TE will steal) while the threat of Finley and Driver ultimately yield big yardage and 7-10 TDs for Jennings.

I agree with you on Jennings, just Ochocinco's performance this preseason has been frighteningly lackluster.
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Re: Pierre Garcon

Postby Niner Memories » Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:15 pm

Rating Boldin, Jackson and Ocho above Fitz is just criminal... :-t
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Re: Pierre Garcon

Postby joejlitz » Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:35 pm

Goose wrote:...I feel similarly about Greg Jennings. Many could question his position on the list also and with valid reasons. However, I feel the current Green Bay offense will be utterly explosive and that their line will better protect AR allowing him to throw the ball downfield to a greater degree than last year. Hence, Jennings' stock rises with me...

What makes you think this? I had Jennings last year and his "poor" season was due in large part to an OL that couldn't give Rogers the time to get the ball downfield. I saw no notable improvement to the OL, so I avoided him again this year. What do you know that I don't? :-?
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