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Why is everyone so low on McCoy?

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Re: Why is everyone so low on McCoy?

Postby SetYourselfFree » Sat Sep 11, 2010 6:43 pm

justinj312 wrote:
SetYourselfFree wrote: I think he has Brian Westbrook upside if everything breaks right.


Umm No.
Not as fast, not as elusive, not as good of a receiver, and not as good of a blocker. He has not proven he can shoulder the load for the whole season.

McCoy pales in comparinson to Westy. I have stayed away from him in all drafts. McCoy is a serviceable RB who does alot of things ok, but nothing really great.


I guess you didn't really read the rest of my post. He needs to improve in many ways but reports out of camp suggest he has. He's also in much better shape and that can go a long way...look at Cedric Benson. Yes his line is great but if you watched him in 08 and then again in '10 his improved conditioning clearly made a difference.We'll have to see during the regular season but given his recieving ability, I don't see why he can't approach the fantasy value that Westbrook had during his starting days if everything breaks right.
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Re: Why is everyone so low on McCoy?

Postby justinj312 » Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:19 pm

biju wrote:
justinj312 wrote:
SetYourselfFree wrote: I think he has Brian Westbrook upside if everything breaks right.


Umm No.

Not as fast, not as elusive, not as good of a receiver, and not as good of a blocker. He has not proven he can shoulder the load for the whole season.

McCoy pales in comparinson to Westy. I have stayed away from him in all drafts. McCoy is a serviceable RB who does alot of things ok, but nothing really great.


This sounds kind of like what people said when Westbrook came into the league. He was too small, not quick enough, not a good blocker.

I've give you that Westbrook is a better receiver (albeit not by as much as you're thinking) and certainly last year he was a better blocker, but it's foolish to think that those skills can't be improved upon. McCoy was drafted because of his receiving tools, it's just a matter of reps and coaching to get him further along. By most accounts it sounds like the beat reporters were impressed by McCoy this offseason for how much more comfortable he is with the system.

I think a lot of people think of the glory years of Westbrook instead of the reality: Westbrook was a great pass catcher with poor "between the tackles" running skill for most of his career. He was injured often enough to never play a full 16 games. In the two years Westbrook took it between the tackles he produced great rushing totals but only lasted two years while never really having the full load put on him.

If you ask me, McCoy is on the same trajectory as Westbrook and just needs to toughen up a bit as a rusher.


Umm, No.

Sure McCoy has put on some muscle and "knows" the offense better this year, but the truth is the RB playbook has been greatly scaled down due to the change in RB. Plus McCoy won't be on the field as much.

McCoy does not have breakaway homerun speed (limiting big play ability), has yet to be lined up on the outside as quasi-WR (creating mismatches), is not as good of a blocker (might come off on 3-4 WR passing downs), is not the goal line back, is not the back used to run out the clock. He just won't be on the field as much, thereby lowering his production. Westbrook was used in every situation (and actually had to have his touches monitored b/c he did everything so well).

Westbrook is one of the best all around backs there ever was, and to think that McCoy will step right in and replicate Westy's numbers is incorrect. You are both underrating Westy and overrating McCoy.
thx

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Re: Why is everyone so low on McCoy?

Postby SameSongNDance » Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:28 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtuDRkvgJfg ;-D

Honestly, my opinions are that he finishes the year out as a solid RB2 in non PPR and a high-end RB2/low-end RB1 in PPR leagues. This actually has more to do with the QB switch than anything else. More check downs than usual = more padded stats. He has the tools no?
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Re: Why is everyone so low on McCoy?

Postby petedog9 » Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:56 pm

I am in the camp that he will be a productive fantasy back by sheer touches alone. A young QB will look to check down alot and they will want to have at least some sort of run game to keep the pressure off of Kolb. Mc Coy is the guy for both those roles and he will see a ton of touches. He fell in my main draft and I nabbed him as a RB3 with a ton of upside. He has the talent to get it done.
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Re: Why is everyone so low on McCoy?

Postby SetYourselfFree » Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:31 pm

justinj312 wrote:
biju wrote:
justinj312 wrote:
Umm No.

Not as fast, not as elusive, not as good of a receiver, and not as good of a blocker. He has not proven he can shoulder the load for the whole season.

McCoy pales in comparinson to Westy. I have stayed away from him in all drafts. McCoy is a serviceable RB who does alot of things ok, but nothing really great.


This sounds kind of like what people said when Westbrook came into the league. He was too small, not quick enough, not a good blocker.

I've give you that Westbrook is a better receiver (albeit not by as much as you're thinking) and certainly last year he was a better blocker, but it's foolish to think that those skills can't be improved upon. McCoy was drafted because of his receiving tools, it's just a matter of reps and coaching to get him further along. By most accounts it sounds like the beat reporters were impressed by McCoy this offseason for how much more comfortable he is with the system.

I think a lot of people think of the glory years of Westbrook instead of the reality: Westbrook was a great pass catcher with poor "between the tackles" running skill for most of his career. He was injured often enough to never play a full 16 games. In the two years Westbrook took it between the tackles he produced great rushing totals but only lasted two years while never really having the full load put on him.

If you ask me, McCoy is on the same trajectory as Westbrook and just needs to toughen up a bit as a rusher.


Umm, No.

Sure McCoy has put on some muscle and "knows" the offense better this year, but the truth is the RB playbook has been greatly scaled down due to the change in RB. Plus McCoy won't be on the field as much.

McCoy does not have breakaway homerun speed (limiting big play ability), has yet to be lined up on the outside as quasi-WR (creating mismatches), is not as good of a blocker (might come off on 3-4 WR passing downs), is not the goal line back, is not the back used to run out the clock. He just won't be on the field as much, thereby lowering his production. Westbrook was used in every situation (and actually had to have his touches monitored b/c he did everything so well).

Westbrook is one of the best all around backs there ever was, and to think that McCoy will step right in and replicate Westy's numbers is incorrect. You are both underrating Westy and overrating McCoy.


Uhhhhmmmm. no

uhhhhm.


uuuuuuuhhhm. Well, I think you're highly overrating Westbrook if you think he's one of the all-time greats. Yeah he was one of the top 5-10 during his absolute prime but that was a rather short span, maybe 2 years. McCoy isn't a blazer but I don't know where you heard Westbrook had some freakish game-breaking speed. His best 40 time was nearly a 4.6 in his prime. He had good vision and cutting ability if that's what you meant. And guess what...McCoy runs a faster 40 now than Westbrook ever did. I don't know where you're getting this asumption that he's going to lose a ton of snaps to other backs. Westbrook often lost snaps to Buckhalter who is a much better talent than Mike Bell. Additionally, Mike Bell is even worse than McCoy at picking up the blitz and Leonard Weaver is a lead blocker.

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Re: Why is everyone so low on McCoy?

Postby Wenchtamer » Sat Sep 11, 2010 11:22 pm

40 time? meh.

I was just not that impressed watching McCoy last year. I guess he still has time to grow into a better Westbrookian player but I just didn't see it.

McCoy hasn't ended up on any of my teams because I wouldn't consider him before the 5th round and he's never there that late.

He should be a fine RB2 esp in ppr but I don't think he has RB1 upside unless Philly starts using their other backs less (like how they were using Weaver last year and will probably use Bell/Weaver this year)
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Re: Why is everyone so low on McCoy?

Postby justinj312 » Sat Sep 11, 2010 11:44 pm

Sorry, he's not one of the all-time greats. One of the best and most complete during his prime, top 5 for like a 3-4 yr period.


"His best 40 time was nearly a 4.6 in his prime"

4.6 maybe when he was in college with a bad knee (that's why he dropped to the 3rd rd). All that mattered was Westbrook could take it the distance (he did on running(71yd TD), receiving(71yd TD), and kick returns(84yd TD)). He ran past DBs. Westbrook had big play ability in all facets of the game.


"Westbrook often lost snaps to Buckhalter"

C'mon now. Buck missed 2 full seasons with knee injuries ('04-05 and '05-06). Hard to lose snaps to a guy who was on the IR.

The truth is that McCoy is about their 3 or 4th option behind DJax, Celek (Kolb's security blanket), and sometimes Maclin. He is the leader of the Eagles RB by committee backfield. Therefore he won't be getting goal line touches and he won't be used in running the clock out. Those are the facts as any die hard Eagles follower would know.

My opinion: McCoy will get his catches and yards in between the 20s. Don't expect big plays. Don't expect a lot of TDs. Possible ball control and durability issues.
thx

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Re: Why is everyone so low on McCoy?

Postby bostonsoxandy » Sun Sep 12, 2010 9:48 am

SameSongNDance wrote:Almost every analysis that I've had the pleasure of reading states that McCoy is going to high, he only has real worth in PPR leagues and that Mike Bell will almost definitely eat into his carries(goal line). I wanted to know what the Cafe's take on him was, I'll leave my opinion out of it for now. :-b


He simply can't pass block which makes him ineffective whenever the Eagles pass if they want extra blockers...and they like to pass...
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Re: Why is everyone so low on McCoy?

Postby bostonsoxandy » Sun Sep 12, 2010 9:48 am

SameSongNDance wrote:Almost every analysis that I've had the pleasure of reading states that McCoy is going to high, he only has real worth in PPR leagues and that Mike Bell will almost definitely eat into his carries(goal line). I wanted to know what the Cafe's take on him was, I'll leave my opinion out of it for now. :-b


He simply can't pass block which makes him ineffective whenever the Eagles pass if they want extra blockers...and they like to pass...
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Re: Why is everyone so low on McCoy?

Postby moochman » Sun Sep 12, 2010 9:53 am

I wonder how much we over use 40 times in evaluating a players speed. Westbrook was a threat to break any play all the way at any time. Could be the 40 time he showed transferred to the playing field better than most. Add to that his cutting and catching ability, vision and inherent feel for the play and Westbrook made Ds wet themselves on a regular basis. Haven't see anything in McCoy to suggest that he is as good as Westbrook was in his prime. There's is one of the reasons McCoy is downgraded: Westbrook is a very tough act to follow.
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