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Hines Ward = 1st ballot HOF?

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Re: Hines Ward = 1st ballot HOF?

Postby biju » Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:31 am

petedog9 wrote:
biju wrote:The short answer is "no".

The long answer is "nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo".

There certainly is something that could be said about his longevity in the league, but that's really the only reason why he's in the ballpark with all of those other WR greats you just mentioned (many of whom are also not in the HOF). You're comparing different eras and assuming this should mean he gets in, where you should judge him by his contemporary peers.

I'm not trying to take anything away from Hines Ward and his role with the Steelers. He's been absolutely instrumental and should certainly be remembered by generations of Steeler fans. One of the best WRs in NFL history? I'm not sure. At least not enough for a first ballot and I'm not even sure he's on the ballot the first year of his eligibility.



No offense biju but when this thread started, I said to myself that you would post up in here with a right about what you posted. Your next positive post about anything Steelers will be your first. Your still quite bitter about losing the Superbowl to the Steelers and blaming the refs. I have never seen a post from you with regards to the Steelers that wasnt negative.

just sayin...


This says absolutely nothing about Hines Ward not making the HOF, no mention of any Superbowl, or anything bad about the Steelers. You guys use SBXL to discount anything I have to say about any Steelers. That's fine, just be aware you are using it as an excuse instead of having any real argument.

It asked if he would make the HOF on the first ballot, which would also mean when he's first available to get into the HOF. To that I disagree. That's Jerry Rice. We're talking about Hines Ward.

Munboy just brought up Randy Moss and Terrell Owens as two people who have "comparable numbers" to Hines Ward. Wrong.

Terrell Owens: 1061 catches for 15721 yards and 151 TDs
Randy Moss: 948 catches for 14778 yards and 152 TDs
Hines Ward: 925 catches for 11322 yards and 85 TDs

There are two people here that will be 1st ballot HOFers. One will not. Argue that, not your feelings about me.
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Re: Hines Ward = 1st ballot HOF?

Postby petedog9 » Wed Nov 10, 2010 2:40 pm

biju wrote: Munboy just brought up Randy Moss and Terrell Owens as two people who have "comparable numbers" to Hines Ward. Wrong.

Terrell Owens: 1061 catches for 15721 yards and 151 TDs
Randy Moss: 948 catches for 14778 yards and 152 TDs
Hines Ward: 925 catches for 11322 yards and 85 TDs

There are two people here that will be 1st ballot HOFers. One will not. Argue that, not your feelings about me.


When one is considerred for the HOF,there is more then just stats that go into play. (See Chris Carter) . If we are comapring these 3 players body of work, you must also take into consideration the following:


Terrell Owens: 1061 catches for 15721 yards and 151 TDs. 0 SB ring, widely considerred a cancer and troublemaker, on his 4th team
Randy Moss: 948 catches for 14778 yards and 152 TDs, 0 SB rings,also considerred a cancer and troublemaker, on is 5th team
Hines Ward: 925 catches for 11322 yards and 85 TDs, 2SB rings, SB MVP , Career on one team, Considerred best blocking WR of all time, Korean born player, appointed to President's Advisory Commission on Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders

These are all things that will go into the equation when they vote upon who gets in and who doesnt. Stats alone will not be the reason you get in or dont. There are many players with deserving stats who are currently not in the hall..There is always a level of politics and public perception as well... Sometimes that works for a player, other times against. You might laugh at the Korean part and the Presidental personally appointing him to the committe part but it will play a role.

On a side note:

biju: I am not attacking you personally, but its not a secret your dislike of the Steelers. It's been years since that Superbowl and it's obvious that you still hold bitterness. Honestly, it was the first thing that I thought of when I read this post. I said to myself, " I wonder when biju will pop up in here."... We've jabbed back and forth for years but I do respect your opinion and enjoy reading your posts. ;-D
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Re: Hines Ward = 1st ballot HOF?

Postby Sex Panther » Wed Nov 10, 2010 3:16 pm

I honestly don't understand the Super Bowl Championship thing when it comes to hall of fame -

Barry Sanders, Eric Dickerson, Dan Marino, Bruce Smith, Fran Tarkenton, Jim Kelly, Bruce Matthews, Dick Butkus, Deacon Jones, Merlin Olsen, etc & so-on - all never won a SB

Just winning a SB (or any other major sports title) really has no bearing on one's individual accomplishments/stats/abilities - which is what HoF's honor - players that are among the very best at what they do during the era in which they played.

Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, Carl Yastrzemski, Elgin Baylor, Ted Williams, etc & so on - no championships, yet there is no real arguement that they are not among the very best at what they did when they did it.

On the flip side, is Robert Horry a first ballot HoFer? He won (or more appropriately was part of) 7 (1 more than Jordan) NBA championships.

How about Doug Williams? He won a SB, SB MVP, and is the only african-american NFL QB to ever win the award.

Winning is nice, but it doesn't make you the greatest at what you do in team sports - and even if you are among the all time greats at what you do, that doesn't translate into 1st ballot greatness in the NFL...

It took Art Monk 14 years to get into the HoF, when he retired he was the NFL's All Time leader in receptions, was named to an all decade team, won 3 SB's, held the yardage record, was the only player in NFL history to record at least 35 receptions in 15 straight season (Owens tied this record this year), 1st in NFL history to have a 100 catch season, 1st in NFL history to hit 900 catches... and he wasn't a 1st ballot guy...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_Monk
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Re: Hines Ward = 1st ballot HOF?

Postby Flyn high again » Wed Nov 10, 2010 3:35 pm

R00k wrote:He'll make it into the HOF.
It will not be on the first ballet however I do not think.

I have another question though.

Will Moss's "shanagins" effect his ability to get in on the first ballet?



Moss has the "Name" and the notoriety as well as the numbers. Those qualities get you elected fast.
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Re: Hines Ward = 1st ballot HOF?

Postby petedog9 » Wed Nov 10, 2010 4:10 pm

Sex Panther wrote:I honestly don't understand the Super Bowl Championship thing when it comes to hall of fame -


Not saying it's right or wrong for Super Bowls rings to have a bearing but it is most definatley a factor with the voters and always has been. You have heard it a million times when they debate wether or not one is worthy..
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Re: Hines Ward = 1st ballot HOF?

Postby biju » Wed Nov 10, 2010 4:49 pm

petedog9 wrote:When one is considerred for the HOF,there is more then just stats that go into play. (See Chris Carter) . If we are comapring these 3 players body of work, you must also take into consideration the following:


Terrell Owens: 1061 catches for 15721 yards and 151 TDs. 0 SB ring, widely considerred a cancer and troublemaker, on his 4th team
Randy Moss: 948 catches for 14778 yards and 152 TDs, 0 SB rings,also considerred a cancer and troublemaker, on is 5th team
Hines Ward: 925 catches for 11322 yards and 85 TDs, 2SB rings, SB MVP , Career on one team, Considerred best blocking WR of all time, Korean born player, appointed to President's Advisory Commission on Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders

These are all things that will go into the equation when they vote upon who gets in and who doesnt. Stats alone will not be the reason you get in or dont. There are many players with deserving stats who are currently not in the hall..There is always a level of politics and public perception as well... Sometimes that works for a player, other times against. You might laugh at the Korean part and the Presidental personally appointing him to the committe part but it will play a role.

On a side note:

biju: I am not attacking you personally, but its not a secret your dislike of the Steelers. It's been years since that Superbowl and it's obvious that you still hold bitterness. Honestly, it was the first thing that I thought of when I read this post. I said to myself, " I wonder when biju will pop up in here."... We've jabbed back and forth for years but I do respect your opinion and enjoy reading your posts. ;-D


First off, no worries here. There are plenty of teams I root against and their fans will tell you the same. Basically I'm a very bitter person regarding any team but my Seahawks and that will likely always show through. Hell, I hate 90% of the teams in the NFL and the others just haven't given me a reason to hate them yet--it will happen in time.

You might be right that politics come into play for HOF voting, but your assertion that players with Hall-worthy numbers and the right personality should be no-brainers to get in is and *should* be flawed. Let's take my favorite example of this: Shaun Alexander.

Shaun Alexander is one of the greatest people to play in the NFL, with many charities in the Seattle area, a strong religious voice and exemplary role model within the community.

Now that his character is out of the way.

He's #7 all time for rushing TDs (tied with Marshall Faulk and bested by Emmit Smith, LaDainian Tomlinson, Marcus Allen, Walter Payton, Jim Brown and John Riggins). He scored more rushing TDs than Barry Sanders, Jerome Bettis, Franco Harris, Eric Dickerson, Curits Martin to name a few names.

He's #28 on the all time rushing yards list, but only 15 of the names above him averaged more than he did per year (four of them by 15 or less yards per year).

Shaun Alexander held the season record for the most rushing TDs (only to be beaten by LT one year later).

Hall of Fame worthy? I'd be willing to bet most people, including the ones on this thread saying Ward should be a no-brainer, would say no. When you say no, explain why and what the difference is between him and Ward and really think about whether that could also apply to Ward himself.
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Re: Hines Ward = 1st ballot HOF?

Postby Munboy » Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:16 pm

Lets not forget that no receiver in the history of the NFL (since they started counting) has dropped more passes than TO. And Randy Moss takes more plays off than anybody else in the league. Ward is all go, all the time. He has the numbers, blocks, rings, and SB MVP...the ATTITUDE on the field (play all out) and off the field (good teammate and person)...all on the same team. One of the best all around "complete" receivers to hit the league.

Ask me if I want a career receiver. The go to guy (like Ward has been) for 10+ years for one team. Or if I want a physical "Freak" who will put up some stats...BUT will take most running plays off, some passing plays...will complain in the wrong ways (I don't mind complaining, its just how it's done)...will be gone in a few years because he doesn't get along with his coaches or teammates...I don't know about you guys, but I'd pick option 1 every time.

Go ahead and mark this thread down, because I'm calling it. In 7-8 years, 5 years after he retires, Ward will be going into the hall.
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Re: Hines Ward = 1st ballot HOF?

Postby bungle613 » Thu Nov 11, 2010 12:40 am

Munboy wrote:I.......don't understand you guys' thinking. He's been in the league the same amount of time as Randy Moss (13 years). He came into the league as the jack of all trades, master of none. He took a couple years to learn the WR position. Moss came into the league as "The Freak"....And yet, he has comparable numbers to Moss. TO's been in the league 2 years longer and Ward has comparable numbers. Plus, he did what these two don't do for his entire career... Block. I understand the thinking that he might not be a first ballot, but not at all? That I don't understand. In the end of his career, he'll be AT LEAST in the top 10 of the three major statistical categories. He could end up in the top 5 if he remains productive the next 2 years. Doesn't belong in the HOF? Seriously?

But I digress....


Along with everyone else...love the guy. He loves football and I appreciate that. First ballot... nope. Chris Carter didn't get in on the first ballot. You can only compare Ward statistically to Moss and Owens in receptions. HE is well behind in yards and touchdowns over roughly the same playing time. It's unfortunate that so much is placed on stats because if you place as much emphasis on a great statistics guy and how he plays hte game then Ward would get my vote ahead of Moss or Owens.

Was he is the top 100 greatest players? oh... and how the hell was John Randle NOT on that list!!!
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Re: Hines Ward = 1st ballot HOF?

Postby Munboy » Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:14 am

bungle613 wrote:
Munboy wrote:I.......don't understand you guys' thinking. He's been in the league the same amount of time as Randy Moss (13 years). He came into the league as the jack of all trades, master of none. He took a couple years to learn the WR position. Moss came into the league as "The Freak"....And yet, he has comparable numbers to Moss. TO's been in the league 2 years longer and Ward has comparable numbers. Plus, he did what these two don't do for his entire career... Block. I understand the thinking that he might not be a first ballot, but not at all? That I don't understand. In the end of his career, he'll be AT LEAST in the top 10 of the three major statistical categories. He could end up in the top 5 if he remains productive the next 2 years. Doesn't belong in the HOF? Seriously?

But I digress....


Along with everyone else...love the guy. He loves football and I appreciate that. First ballot... nope. Chris Carter didn't get in on the first ballot. You can only compare Ward statistically to Moss and Owens in receptions. HE is well behind in yards and touchdowns over roughly the same playing time. It's unfortunate that so much is placed on stats because if you place as much emphasis on a great statistics guy and how he plays hte game then Ward would get my vote ahead of Moss or Owens.

Was he is the top 100 greatest players? oh... and how the hell was John Randle NOT on that list!!!


He wasn't on it, but he did present Ed Reed.
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Re: Hines Ward = 1st ballot HOF?

Postby petedog9 » Thu Nov 11, 2010 11:01 am

It's not the first time Ward has "presented" Ed Reed... :-D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QGKlluCU0o

I especially like the way he points down right afterwards for the sideline staff to come get Reed...
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