Dispute over who wins division - Fantasy Football Cafe 2014 Fantasy Football Cafe


Return to Football Talk

Dispute over who wins division

Moderator: Football Moderators

Dispute over who wins division

Postby purplehooters » Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:07 pm

Please help!!!

Top 2 teams in division are 7-4-2 and 8-5 and the winner of the division gets a bye this week in the playoffs and a bonus $$. The website ranks the 7-4-2 team as the division leader, but the 8-5 team is disputing this.

Who should win the division...more wins or less losses??

Thanks
purplehooters
Defensive Assistant
Defensive Assistant


Posts: 391
Joined: 8 Sep 2005
Home Cafe: Football

Re: Dispute over who wins division

Postby FatFoot » Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:13 pm

Weird.

8 wins is better than 7 wins anywhere I look... there must be something specific written somewhere on your league rules or the site's default league rules that explain this.
FatFoot
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
Cafe RankerEagle Eye
Posts: 3259
Joined: 28 Aug 2005
Home Cafe: Football
Location: In the Belly of the Beast

Re: Dispute over who wins division

Postby Goody » Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:15 pm

Actually, they are EVEN based on the records. What do you have as your tie breaker? I am assume it is total points or head to head and the team that is 7-4-2 either has more total points or beat the 8-5 team head to head. It's not as clear cut as you think. This is another reason you should not do a league with non-fractional points. It brings ties into the equation which muddies the water.

Good luck! ;-D
Image
OKCHomers
OKCFFL Auction
Goody
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar

Posts: 2413
Joined: 23 Sep 2003
Home Cafe: Football

Re: Dispute over who wins division

Postby utility-hook » Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:31 pm

Generally, most organizations count a tie as one half win and one half loss when computing winning percentage. The National Football League is one of the organizations that does this.

So, should a team in the NFL have a record of 5 wins, 4 losses, and 1 tie (5-4-1), their winning percentage would be .550. This is calculated by taking the number of games (10) and dividing into the number of wins (5.5).

In the case of the 7-4-2 team, since he has 2 ties they both count as one half wins and one half losses which equals 1 more win and 1 more loss giving him the same record as the other team when calculating the winning percentages.
.5W +.5W =1win and .5L + .5L =1loss making him 8-5. In my league if 2 teams in the same division have the same winning % then we go by who has the best division record. If still tied then it goes to head-to-head record. After that total points scored.
utility-hook
Head Coach
Head Coach

User avatar
Fantasy ExpertCafe RankerPick 3 Weekly WinnerMatchup Meltdown SurvivorCafe Blackjack Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 1648
(Past Year: 51)
Joined: 28 Aug 2003
Home Cafe: Football

Re: Dispute over who wins division

Postby spodog » Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:34 pm

If you follow the rules that the NFL uses, then both of these teams are technially TIED with identical .615 winning percentages.

Since 1972, the NFL has counted TIES as 1/2 a WIN and 1/2 a loss, so if you calcuate the winning percentage for an 8-5 team and for a 7-4-2 team, then these teams are considered to have identical records, just as if both teams were 8-5. The 8-5 record is not better than than the 7-4-2 record (or vice versa).

If this occurs in the NFL, then the NFL considers the teams tied and proceeds to look at the Division Champion tiebreaker to determine how to break the tie, which is Head to Head record between the tied teams.

So if you follow this process, you should declare the teams tied and use your league's Division Champ tie-breaking procedure, which surely you documented before the season started, right O:-)
Image
spodog
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
Cafe WriterCafe RankerCafe SpotterWeb SupporterMatchup Meltdown SurvivorCafe Blackjack Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 4058
Joined: 21 Sep 2004
Home Cafe: Football
Location: At my trailer on the beach in Malibu

Re: Dispute over who wins division

Postby spodog » Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:36 pm

FatFoot wrote:Weird.

8 wins is better than 7 wins anywhere I look..


Guess you didn't look at the NFL?
Image
spodog
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
Cafe WriterCafe RankerCafe SpotterWeb SupporterMatchup Meltdown SurvivorCafe Blackjack Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 4058
Joined: 21 Sep 2004
Home Cafe: Football
Location: At my trailer on the beach in Malibu

Re: Dispute over who wins division

Postby FatFoot » Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:37 pm

NFL? What the heck is THAT??? :-b
FatFoot
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
Cafe RankerEagle Eye
Posts: 3259
Joined: 28 Aug 2005
Home Cafe: Football
Location: In the Belly of the Beast

Re: Dispute over who wins division

Postby A Fleshner Fantasy » Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:01 pm

FatFoot wrote:Weird.

8 wins is better than 7 wins anywhere I look... there must be something specific written somewhere on your league rules or the site's default league rules that explain this.


Any anywhere I look 4 losses is better than 5...
Image

Thanks to abrunn for the awesome sig
A Fleshner Fantasy
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Cafe RankerMock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 7746
Joined: 11 May 2006
Home Cafe: Football
Location: The Big House

Re: Dispute over who wins division

Postby Flyn high again » Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:16 pm

As mentioned, fractional points FTW. Whole number points lead to 2nd and 3rd tie breakers. Depending on who hosts your leagues, there should be a rules page that covers this situation. I know CBS and Yahoo both have such pages if you look for them. If your league doesn't have its own specific rules covering a situation the site rules apply. In a worst case scenario where a situation is not specifically covered, you could send an email to the site asking for a ruling, have the commissioner decide or take a league vote.
Go Bears!
Flyn high again
Head Coach
Head Coach

User avatar

Posts: 1732
Joined: 17 Sep 2005
Home Cafe: Football

Re: Dispute over who wins division

Postby scottaa1 » Tue Dec 07, 2010 6:37 pm

utility-hook wrote:Generally, most organizations count a tie as one half win and one half loss when computing winning percentage. The National Football League is one of the organizations that does this.

So, should a team in the NFL have a record of 5 wins, 4 losses, and 1 tie (5-4-1), their winning percentage would be .550. This is calculated by taking the number of games (10) and dividing into the number of wins (5.5).

In the case of the 7-4-2 team, since he has 2 ties they both count as one half wins and one half losses which equals 1 more win and 1 more loss giving him the same record as the other team when calculating the winning percentages.
.5W +.5W =1win and .5L + .5L =1loss making him 8-5. In my league if 2 teams in the same division have the same winning % then we go by who has the best division record. If still tied then it goes to head-to-head record. After that total points scored.


Good post. With two ties, they're 8-5, with one, they're 7.5-4.5

I agree that a scoring system that allows for ties is to blame for circumstances such as this. It's a contest, decide upon a winner, leave no ambiguity.
Image
Thanks Chaoyi Shih for the sig.
scottaa1
Mod in Retirement
Mod in Retirement

User avatar
EditorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterMock(ing) DrafterGolden Eagle EyePick 3 Weekly WinnerMatchup Meltdown SurvivorCafe Blackjack Weekly Winner
Posts: 8540
(Past Year: 13)
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Home Cafe: Football
Location: Indy

Next

Return to Football Talk

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Start & Sit Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Get Ready...
The 2014 NFL season kicks off in 22:28 hours
(and 38 days)
2014 NFL Schedule


  • Fantasy Football
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact