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Re: JOE WEBB - QB/WR Eligible

Postby Kareighuis » Fri Dec 24, 2010 1:42 am

CBMGreatOne wrote:I do agree with every point you're making. I'm just saying that there has never (to my knowledge) been a starting QB who qualified at any other position in fantasy, so in that specific sense it is unprecedented. It is also a particulary huge advantage, orders of magnitude more of an advantage than any Woodhead, McCluster, even perhaps Colston situation.


I can't see Joe Webb having the same impact as Colston. Webb's a rookie QB on a team that's missing many starters. They appear to have mailed it in. I can't imagine him having much impact- his turnovers can kill him.

Colston could be played at TE, and had a strong group of players around him. Because of his greater production, Colston's TE eligibility had a greater impact than Webb's WR listing.
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Re: JOE WEBB - QB/WR Eligible

Postby bungle613 » Fri Dec 24, 2010 2:45 am

CBMGreatOne wrote:I do agree with every point you're making. I'm just saying that there has never (to my knowledge) been a starting QB who qualified at any other position in fantasy, so in that specific sense it is unprecedented. It is also a particulary huge advantage, orders of magnitude more of an advantage than any Woodhead, McCluster, even perhaps Colston situation.

Some people have no problem with it, and as with you I concede their points, but I think with the Joe Webb situation, every league had the opportunity to say "We aren't going to do this just because Yahoo allows it." I think given the circumstances, and although it is admittedly a gray area, it would be ideal to refrain from using a starting QB at any other position.

Again, I never had any intention of changing the rules (more like adding a rule) this year, but I will institute a ban on using any dual eligible starting QB at any position other than QB going forward. In the real NFL, they came up with the "Bert Emmanuel Rule" about 10 years ago. In my fantasy league, this year we've come up with the "Joe Webb Rule" which will be put into effect next year.


I am sure it has been siad in this thread but 14 pages is too much to search through. This is yet another stellar reason all of you who love FF should not be playing on Yahoo. It is ridiculous that a website is allowing a player who has literally not played a snap in a game or practise at the WR slot to have that eligibilaty. I don't have specifics as the info has been erased from the web but I can't recall in the last 4 months seeing Webb listed on the Vikings depth chart at WR.
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Re: JOE WEBB - QB/WR Eligible

Postby Maris09 » Fri Dec 24, 2010 12:51 pm

bungle613 wrote:I am sure it has been siad in this thread but 14 pages is too much to search through. This is yet another stellar reason all of you who love FF should not be playing on Yahoo. It is ridiculous that a website is allowing a player who has literally not played a snap in a game or practise at the WR slot to have that eligibilaty. I don't have specifics as the info has been erased from the web but I can't recall in the last 4 months seeing Webb listed on the Vikings depth chart at WR.

How many Quarterbacks have you seen return a kickoff? The answer is zero. But Joe Webb did.

And I don't recall the particular game, but back on one of those podcasts they mentioned that he did line up at WR at some point in some game this season. Not that it really makes any difference. You, and everyone else in your league, can only go by what the system you play under allows you to do. That's it. There's no morality or lack of morality in it. Either take advantage of something, or someone else will.
Now I'm all for making a pre-season rule like CBM was saying, but for now, you have to go with the settings you've had all season.
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Re: JOE WEBB - QB/WR Eligible

Postby ABA316 » Fri Dec 24, 2010 2:02 pm

CBMGreatOne wrote:I do agree with every point you're making. I'm just saying that there has never (to my knowledge) been a starting QB who qualified at any other position in fantasy, so in that specific sense it is unprecedented. It is also a particulary huge advantage, orders of magnitude more of an advantage than any Woodhead, McCluster, even perhaps Colston situation.

Some people have no problem with it, and as with you I concede their points, but I think with the Joe Webb situation, every league had the opportunity to say "We aren't going to do this just because Yahoo allows it." I think given the circumstances, and although it is admittedly a gray area, it would be ideal to refrain from using a starting QB at any other position.

Again, I never had any intention of changing the rules (more like adding a rule) this year, but I will institute a ban on using any dual eligible starting QB at any position other than QB going forward. In the real NFL, they came up with the "Bert Emmanuel Rule" about 10 years ago. In my fantasy league, this year we've come up with the "Joe Webb Rule" which will be put into effect next year.



CBM, what was the situation with Bert Emmanuel? I wasn't doing FF about 10 years ago as you mentioned.
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Re: JOE WEBB - QB/WR Eligible

Postby CBMGreatOne » Fri Dec 24, 2010 2:35 pm

ABA316 wrote:
CBMGreatOne wrote:I do agree with every point you're making. I'm just saying that there has never (to my knowledge) been a starting QB who qualified at any other position in fantasy, so in that specific sense it is unprecedented. It is also a particulary huge advantage, orders of magnitude more of an advantage than any Woodhead, McCluster, even perhaps Colston situation.

Some people have no problem with it, and as with you I concede their points, but I think with the Joe Webb situation, every league had the opportunity to say "We aren't going to do this just because Yahoo allows it." I think given the circumstances, and although it is admittedly a gray area, it would be ideal to refrain from using a starting QB at any other position.

Again, I never had any intention of changing the rules (more like adding a rule) this year, but I will institute a ban on using any dual eligible starting QB at any position other than QB going forward. In the real NFL, they came up with the "Bert Emmanuel Rule" about 10 years ago. In my fantasy league, this year we've come up with the "Joe Webb Rule" which will be put into effect next year.



CBM, what was the situation with Bert Emmanuel? I wasn't doing FF about 10 years ago as you mentioned.


It was a "real life" rule change. Joe Webb would be a fantasy rule change.

Basically the Bert Emmanuel rule changed the rule on completed catches. It used to be that any ball that touched the ground was ruled incomplete even if the receiver maintained possession throughout contact with the ground. Now in the NFL if the ball touches the ground in the process of a catch being made, it's still a catch as long as the receiver controls the ball throughout.

The rule change took effect the following season so, like the Joe Webb rule, it was a spotlighted situation in a high leverage (real life) playoff game that got the league to take a hard look at what was in place and change the rule for the future.
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Re: JOE WEBB - QB/WR Eligible

Postby intense » Fri Dec 24, 2010 4:32 pm

enough of the morality talk, what are people predicting for Webb? Is he worth starting over a guy like Lloyd or Bowe this week?
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Re: JOE WEBB - QB/WR Eligible

Postby bungle613 » Sat Dec 25, 2010 3:01 am

Maris09 wrote:
bungle613 wrote:I am sure it has been siad in this thread but 14 pages is too much to search through. This is yet another stellar reason all of you who love FF should not be playing on Yahoo. It is ridiculous that a website is allowing a player who has literally not played a snap in a game or practise at the WR slot to have that eligibilaty. I don't have specifics as the info has been erased from the web but I can't recall in the last 4 months seeing Webb listed on the Vikings depth chart at WR.

How many Quarterbacks have you seen return a kickoff? The answer is zero. But Joe Webb did.

And I don't recall the particular game, but back on one of those podcasts they mentioned that he did line up at WR at some point in some game this season. Not that it really makes any difference. You, and everyone else in your league, can only go by what the system you play under allows you to do. That's it. There's no morality or lack of morality in it. Either take advantage of something, or someone else will.
Now I'm all for making a pre-season rule like CBM was saying, but for now, you have to go with the settings you've had all season.



Agree 100% to take advantage where you can but you have to agree that it is a bit on the lame side that Yahoo still has this guy listed as WR eligible. I probably have seen a QB return a kickoff but can't recall who and can't be bothered to google it. I have seen a WR (CJ) be a place kicker.... can I petition Yahoo to get him changed to WR/PK. Webb's debut was on the 5th and he left the game with an injury and to the best of my recollection did not play another snap until coming in late on the 12th and I have not missed a Vikings game this year.

In IDP leagues it is fairly standard to have rules in place to make the late site changes fair for everyone. I think it was Suggs who had a DL/LB on just about every site other than MFL but all of my leagues did not allow him to be started as a DL. There have been several others.

BUt yes, if you are playing on Yahoo then by all means, take advanatage of the situation.
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Re: JOE WEBB - QB/WR Eligible

Postby Maris09 » Sat Dec 25, 2010 9:56 pm

bungle613 wrote:
Maris09 wrote:
bungle613 wrote:I am sure it has been siad in this thread but 14 pages is too much to search through. This is yet another stellar reason all of you who love FF should not be playing on Yahoo. It is ridiculous that a website is allowing a player who has literally not played a snap in a game or practise at the WR slot to have that eligibilaty. I don't have specifics as the info has been erased from the web but I can't recall in the last 4 months seeing Webb listed on the Vikings depth chart at WR.

How many Quarterbacks have you seen return a kickoff? The answer is zero. But Joe Webb did.

And I don't recall the particular game, but back on one of those podcasts they mentioned that he did line up at WR at some point in some game this season. Not that it really makes any difference. You, and everyone else in your league, can only go by what the system you play under allows you to do. That's it. There's no morality or lack of morality in it. Either take advantage of something, or someone else will.
Now I'm all for making a pre-season rule like CBM was saying, but for now, you have to go with the settings you've had all season.



Agree 100% to take advantage where you can but you have to agree that it is a bit on the lame side that Yahoo still has this guy listed as WR eligible.

I don't know whether it's lame or not. I have no idea as to what Yahoo's cutoff date to designate players is, and I'm sure up to a point, there was a higher probability that Webb would contribute as a WR, than he would as a QB. After all, he was draft, as a wide receiver.
So bottom line it, it's a once in every 5 or so year fluky thing, that really isn't a big deal. The guy is a huge risk, and could be a huge reward. Not everyone has the stomach to run with that in their championship week.
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Re: JOE WEBB - QB/WR Eligible

Postby flotsamnjetsam » Sun Dec 26, 2010 1:39 pm

bungle613 wrote:
CBMGreatOne wrote:I do agree with every point you're making. I'm just saying that there has never (to my knowledge) been a starting QB who qualified at any other position in fantasy, so in that specific sense it is unprecedented. It is also a particulary huge advantage, orders of magnitude more of an advantage than any Woodhead, McCluster, even perhaps Colston situation.

Some people have no problem with it, and as with you I concede their points, but I think with the Joe Webb situation, every league had the opportunity to say "We aren't going to do this just because Yahoo allows it." I think given the circumstances, and although it is admittedly a gray area, it would be ideal to refrain from using a starting QB at any other position.

Again, I never had any intention of changing the rules (more like adding a rule) this year, but I will institute a ban on using any dual eligible starting QB at any position other than QB going forward. In the real NFL, they came up with the "Bert Emmanuel Rule" about 10 years ago. In my fantasy league, this year we've come up with the "Joe Webb Rule" which will be put into effect next year.


I am sure it has been siad in this thread but 14 pages is too much to search through. This is yet another stellar reason all of you who love FF should not be playing on Yahoo. It is ridiculous that a website is allowing a player who has literally not played a snap in a game or practise at the WR slot to have that eligibilaty. I don't have specifics as the info has been erased from the web but I can't recall in the last 4 months seeing Webb listed on the Vikings depth chart at WR.



I said something similar on page 7, without bashing yahoo for the millionth time. Yahoo is by far the worst site I've used for FF. :-t


flotsamnjetsam wrote:Here's another article that talks about Webb working out at WR for the Vikes:

http://www.fantasyfootballoasis.com/con ... leepers-2/


My 2 cents on the "ethical" part of this conversation is that if Yahoo has him as QB/WR, and your league is on Yahoo, then there's absolutely nothing wrong or unethical about playing him as a WR. I play in numerous IDP leagues and some hosts list players differently. MFL has Bryan Thomas of the Jets as a LB, while fleaflicker has him as a DE. Some IDP's are listed as DL/LB. Our standard rule is that the player can be used at whatever position (or positions) that our host site lists them as.

With this said, I think Yahoo should've changed Webb's position from QB/WR to just QB when it was announced that he would be the Vikes starting QB this week. I checked the other 3 hosts that I used this year (MFL, CBS, and fleaflicker), and they all have Webb listed as just a QB.

So, I don't think it's unethical at all to use Webb as a WR on Yahoo. If anyone is to blame it's Yahoo for not changing his eligibility status. ;-D
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Re: JOE WEBB - QB/WR Eligible

Postby bungle613 » Sun Dec 26, 2010 10:06 pm

Maris09 wrote:
bungle613 wrote:
Maris09 wrote:How many Quarterbacks have you seen return a kickoff? The answer is zero. But Joe Webb did.

And I don't recall the particular game, but back on one of those podcasts they mentioned that he did line up at WR at some point in some game this season. Not that it really makes any difference. You, and everyone else in your league, can only go by what the system you play under allows you to do. That's it. There's no morality or lack of morality in it. Either take advantage of something, or someone else will.
Now I'm all for making a pre-season rule like CBM was saying, but for now, you have to go with the settings you've had all season.



Agree 100% to take advantage where you can but you have to agree that it is a bit on the lame side that Yahoo still has this guy listed as WR eligible.

I don't know whether it's lame or not. I have no idea as to what Yahoo's cutoff date to designate players is, and I'm sure up to a point, there was a higher probability that Webb would contribute as a WR, than he would as a QB. After all, he was draft, as a wide receiver.
So bottom line it, it's a once in every 5 or so year fluky thing, that really isn't a big deal. The guy is a huge risk, and could be a huge reward. Not everyone has the stomach to run with that in their championship week.



But that is just my point Maris. There should not be a cutoff. A good FF site should update as the season goes on. At the very least as Flots already said... once Webb was declared a STARTING QB then the WR designation should have been wiped out. IT really should have been done weeks ago.

Last I will say on bashing Yahoo though and I agree with you and everyone else that it is by no means unethical to take advantage of a sites mistake as long as your league allows it.

I will also say that it is great drama having the Vikes/Eagles game pushed off until Tuesday. Now all those who wanted to start Webb either had to scramble today or know that come Tuesday night, they have a risky start that may win or lose them a championship.
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