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Padding the schedule with patsies

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Padding the schedule with patsies

Postby spodog » Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:10 pm

Last year, the Bucs, Falcons and Chiefs all padded their record by going 4-0 against the woeful NFC West.

This continues a trend, with teams outside the NFC West beating up on these patsies to the tune of a .706 record (113-47) since 2008.

So who will get the benefit of these extra BYE's on their schedule in 2011?

Teams that get all four:

Cowboys
Eagles
Giants
Redskins
Ravens
Steelers
Bengals
Browns
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Re: Padding the schedule with patsies

Postby Indibuck » Sun Apr 03, 2011 7:26 pm

Ironically, the teams that get that NFC west have pretty tough intraconference slates... but it is nice to now that your studs from the NFC East and AFC North will have 4 weeks to pad some stats...
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Re: Padding the schedule with patsies

Postby Kareighuis » Wed Apr 06, 2011 1:32 am

First off, the division-based schedule rotation you're referring to here has been suspended with the end of the CBA. Technically, there is no schedule for 2011.

Having said that, I expect SEA to be worse than 2010 and SF to be better. ARI is up in the air- how well do the address the QB and defensive holes? How does SL adapt to McDaniels? How do they address the defense?
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Re: Padding the schedule with patsies

Postby Dr. Octopus » Wed Apr 06, 2011 1:22 pm

Kareighuis wrote:First off, the division-based schedule rotation you're referring to here has been suspended with the end of the CBA. Technically, there is no schedule for 2011.

Having said that, I expect SEA to be worse than 2010 and SF to be better. ARI is up in the air- how well do the address the QB and defensive holes? How does SL adapt to McDaniels? How do they address the defense?


According to Adam Schefter the schedule will be released this month as usual either way (lockout, CBA or court ordered continuation), which leads me to believe the normal rotation is still in effect.
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Re: Padding the schedule with patsies

Postby spodog » Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:47 pm

Kareighuis wrote:First off, the division-based schedule rotation you're referring to here has been suspended with the end of the CBA. Technically, there is no schedule for 2011.


Wrong.

The schedule rotation policy is established by the NFL offices in New York. They have a 3 man team whose sole year round job is to create the annual schedule through coordination with the teams, the owners of the venues, etc. As I type this response, this group is hard at work putting the finishing touches on about 3 dozen final versions of a 2011 schedule to be reviewed by the league execs.

The schedule rotation itself is never even referenced in the 2006 CBA. Not once.

In addition, the NFL has already published the 2011 team opponent list for every team, including fancy graphics showing how many miles each team is traveling, how difficult each teams schedule is, etc.

You can find it here:
http://www.nfl.com/schedules/interactive

The only thing that is really left to announce is the location and specific DATES of when each of these 256 regular season games are going to be played.

The players may be technically locked out of their teams and team facilities but that has nothing to do with the creation of the schedule, which is proceeding as it has every spring. Rich Eisen recently confirmed he will again be hosting a schedule release show, which will air on NFL Network sometime just prior to the NFL Draft, just as he did in 2010.
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Re: Padding the schedule with patsies

Postby Kareighuis » Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:57 pm

spodog wrote:
Kareighuis wrote:First off, the division-based schedule rotation you're referring to here has been suspended with the end of the CBA. Technically, there is no schedule for 2011.


Wrong.

The schedule rotation policy is established by the NFL offices in New York. They have a 3 man team whose sole year round job is to create the annual schedule through coordination with the teams, the owners of the venues, etc. As I type this response, this group is hard at work putting the finishing touches on about 3 dozen final versions of a 2011 schedule to be reviewed by the league execs.

The schedule rotation itself is never even referenced in the 2006 CBA. Not once.

In addition, the NFL has already published the 2011 team opponent list for every team, including fancy graphics showing how many miles each team is traveling, how difficult each teams schedule is, etc.

You can find it here:
http://www.nfl.com/schedules/interactive

The only thing that is really left to announce is the location and specific DATES of when each of these 256 regular season games are going to be played.

The players may be technically locked out of their teams and team facilities but that has nothing to do with the creation of the schedule, which is proceeding as it has every spring. Rich Eisen recently confirmed he will again be hosting a schedule release show, which will air on NFL Network sometime just prior to the NFL Draft, just as he did in 2010.


Sorry, but not "Wrong".

1) Two years ago, I found this link- "BEYOND 2011 THIS IS A PROJECTED SCHEDULE BASED ON PRIOR YEARS!!! The NFL has announced the schedule rotation only through 2011 (click here for 2011 opponents). The schedule below assumes they will follow the same rotation pattern through 2017; they may not follow the same pattern!" Further investigation revealed that the CBA dictated how many games a team plays against divisional rivals and who they play in non-divisional games. Non-divisional games are rotated on a pre-determined basis- that system is now up in the air with no CBA.

2) The League and the owners have been pushing for 2 extra games for nearly a year now. There's also been talk of more international games, like in Europe, Canada and Mexico. To adjust for this, there's been talk they'll need to cut back on OTAs and preseason games and even add a second bye week.
The main obstacle has been the players have balked big-time. If the court cases don't play out in their favor, or they agree to certain changes in exchange for something they want dearly, there could be 18 games, regardless of what the schedule the League puts out says.

3) Which gets to the final point. With all the back and forth between the two sides, there's been some concern that there'll even be a full 2011 season. By putting out a schedule, that could suggest the League is focusing on getting one.
Additionally, how many games the schedule has could be just another bargaining ploy. If they put 18 and the players refuse to agree to it, it would put the players on the defensive in the media.
However many games are on the schedule, if the lockout/standoff extends into whatever the league-determined schedule says is the start of the regular season, the owners and league can point to the players and say they're holding things up.

In short, the schedule release will have little or no input from the players. Yes, it may end up being put into action, but depending on its characteristics and the negotiations and court cases over the next few weeks/months, it could very easily be a negotiating chip/ploy by the League and the owners.

Just because the League says something doesn't mean it should be believed.
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Re: Padding the schedule with patsies

Postby petedog9 » Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:26 am

This sucks... The offseason is hard enough to get through but usually we have the next season to look forward to. We dont even have that this year. All we have is clips of a bunch of suits walking in and out of office buildings. Now we are reduced to arguing over if a schedule is even gonna be released and if the announced matchups will even get a date, let alone happen.

I love schedule release.. As a Steelers fan onthe west coast, I cant wait to see when and where I am travelling. I start looking for deals on flights after I know the dates... Not this year..
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Re: Padding the schedule with patsies

Postby spodog » Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:26 pm

Kareighuis wrote:
Sorry, but not "Wrong".

1) Two years ago, I found this link- "BEYOND 2011 THIS IS A PROJECTED SCHEDULE BASED ON PRIOR YEARS!!! The NFL has announced the schedule rotation only through 2011 (click here for 2011 opponents). The schedule below assumes they will follow the same rotation pattern through 2017; they may not follow the same pattern!"



Back in '08 or '09 when the Johnny Roadtrip guys put all that data on their web site, they included the caveat you refernece for seasons AFTER the 2011 season. The NFL had announced an extension of the schedule rotation that was in use from 2002 to 2009 for 2 more years ('10 and '11). The Johnny roadtrip guys caveated their forward looking schedules noting that the years 2012 through 2017, which they published projected schedules for, were subject to change, as the NFL had not made any formal commitment to the rotation past the 2011 season.

The part that is wrong is that any of this info is dictated by the CBA. It is not. The owner's of the teams and the league office devised the current schedule rotation policy shortly after divisional re-alignment took place after the 2000 season. (this was the realignment that moved the Seahawks to the NFC, brought the Texans into the league, etc). This new rotation was set in place largely to erase a lot of goofy things that existed in the previous method of scheduling games, such as the 19 year period where the Steelers and the Raiders never had a regular season game!).

In August of 2001, the league put this rotation policy into effect, declaring it the law of the land for the 2002 through 2009 seasons. Before the 2009 season, the NFL extended the same rotation to cover 2010 and 2011. All of this was done without any discussion with the NFLPA, as the schedule rotation and who plays whom in any given year just isn't a topic of much interest to the NFLPA.

Kareighuis wrote:
Further investigation revealed that the CBA dictated how many games a team plays against divisional rivals and who they play in non-divisional games. Non-divisional games are rotated on a pre-determined basis



What "further investigation" are you referring to? I have a copy of the entire 300+ page CBA from 2006 that was in effect until last month. It has no reference to the schedule rotation or to the determination of opponents. I'll be glad to send it to you if you care to spend the time going through it yourself.

Kareighuis wrote:that system is now up in the air with no CBA.


No, actually it's not. There are a lot of things up in the air, like when the season will start, if there will be a pre-season, if there will be a season at all 8-o , but assuming there is a 16 game season in 2011, the schedule rotation in use since 2001 will continue to be used. The NFL has confirmed that, and the team by team opponents are already determined and published on the NFL's web site. The CBA doesn't address the issue of what "system" is used to determine opponents, nor has the NFLPA ever expressed a desire to have that system be a contractual issue

Even prior to the CBA expiring this spring, the NFL had already indicated (as quoted by Goodell himself) that the earliest that the league would be asking the NFLPA to consider going to an 18 game schedule would be the 2012 season. After the sides entered arbitration in Washington DC last month, the league made an offer on March 9th to the NFLPA that included a committment to keep the current 16 game schedule in place through both 2011 and 2012, and left the question of asking to expand to 18 games open, but the request would come no earlier than the 2013 season.

Kareighuis wrote:
2) The League and the owners have been pushing for 2 extra games for nearly a year now. There's also been talk of more international games, like in Europe, Canada and Mexico. To adjust for this, there's been talk they'll need to cut back on OTAs and preseason games and even add a second bye week. The main obstacle has been the players have balked big-time. If the court cases don't play out in their favor, or they agree to certain changes in exchange for something they want dearly, there could be 18 games, regardless of what the schedule the League puts out says.



As mentioned above, the league has already conceded that they won't be asking for 18 prior to 2013. Even if they wanted to go to 18 for the 2011 season, and the NFLPA conceded to it, they couldn't get the logisitcs to work out between now and the start of the season in September

See this link for details:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81eb9907/article/league-releases-details-of-proposal-that-union-didnt-accept

Kareighuis wrote:
3) Which gets to the final point. With all the back and forth between the two sides, there's been some concern that there'll even be a full 2011 season. By putting out a schedule, that could suggest the League is focusing on getting one. Additionally, how many games the schedule has could be just another bargaining ploy. If they put 18 and the players refuse to agree to it,



With regards to the 2011 schedule, that won't happen. A 16 game schedule will be published within the next two weeks, and the league is also working on countless contingency schedules that would involve shorter seasons should the need arise to play a 14 game schedule, 10 game schedule or whatever due to a delayed start of the season. The parties have not been debating an 18 game schedule for 2011, only for future years.

With regards to the seasons 2013 and beyond, the 18 game regular season is indeed a negotiating point between the parties.

Kareighuis wrote:
In short, the schedule release will have little or no input from the players.



That much is true. The players have never had input to the schedule rotation policy, the schedule itself, or to when it is released, nor will they have input to any of those items this year. Nor will the NFLPA. Although expansion in future years from 16 to 18 games is of great concern to both parties, those 3 items are not of concern to the NFLPA.
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