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Criticizing Cafes preseason rankings...

Postby RBManiac » Fri Sep 02, 2011 11:39 pm

I had to do it...

Overall I love the rankings Im just having 1 major problem with the ranking of Tim Hightower. He is ranking 34th overall for RBs.
How is a RB that is steady improving every year especially improving after Warner left ranked 34th?

not only that. Hes the No1 Rb for a team which is known for being very effective running the ball.


Hes also an above average Receiving RB.

34th puts him being the Worst Starting running back in the NFL. Imagine! Imagine him being the worst starting running back in the NFL this year? at least rank him 31st

I dont want to hear any opinion defending his rank of 34.

oh and Boldin is ranked too low. but i find that 10 times more arguable than Hightowers rank.

on 3rd note
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Re: Criticizing Cafes preseason rankings...

Postby Hippo45 » Sat Sep 03, 2011 12:02 am

The problem with rankings in general is that people are afraid to make true rankings. They fear of being ridiculed for putting a guy a lot higher than what other people put him at. People are bold for putting a guy 5 ranks higher than the norm.

Here are my top 10 running back ranks:

1. Ray Rice
2. Felix Jones
3. Jamaal Charles
4. Adrian Peterson
5. LeSean McCoy
6. Chris Johnson
7. Michael Turner
8. Tim Hightower
9. Rashard Mendenhall
10. Jahvid Best
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Re: Criticizing Cafes preseason rankings...

Postby Dan Lambskin » Sat Sep 03, 2011 7:59 am

i dont remember where i personally ranked him but i would take all those guys ahead of him (maybe not Tolbert). just too crowded of a backfield and a fickle coach

since you feel so passionate about it we'd love you to write an article about it ;-)
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Re: Criticizing Cafes preseason rankings...

Postby Sex Panther » Sat Sep 03, 2011 10:45 am

RBManiac wrote:I had to do it...

Overall I love the rankings Im just having 1 major problem with the ranking of Tim Hightower. He is ranking 34th overall for RBs.
How is a RB that is steady improving every year especially improving after Warner left ranked 34th?

not only that. Hes the No1 Rb for a team which is known for being very effective running the ball.


Hes also an above average Receiving RB.

34th puts him being the Worst Starting running back in the NFL. Imagine! Imagine him being the worst starting running back in the NFL this year? at least rank him 31st

I dont want to hear any opinion defending his rank of 34.



Too bad if you don't want to hear an opinion, because I've got one...

34th actually puts him as a non starter - here nor there.

The Skins are going to be god awful, like Andrew Luck Dreby awful.

The Skins running game was absolutely dreadful in 2010 - ranked 30th (out of 32).

They are going into the season with Rex Grossman and John Beck battling it out for the starting QB spot - that strikes fear into the heart of Defenses league wide... Or is it poor saps who are the Skins faithful... you pick.

Sahnny has a very short leash and they have what appears to be a collection of mediocre (at best) talent at RB (Hightower included) - Hightower, Helu, Torain, Williams, Royster - I could care less about the Skins, but I think they are all still rostered. This O-line Washington is trotting out there isn't exactly on the same planet as his Denver teams.

Hightower isn't "special", he's a credible NFL backup RB being thrust into a (in all probability, temporary) starters role.

He's had fumbling issues - (5 fumbles, 4 fumbles lost in each of the past 2 seasons, in limited, non-featured roles)

He has a career YPC of 3.9.

He's not very fast. 4.56 40 back in 2008.

He's never had more than 206 touches in a season.

The only thing he has going for him is he's decent receiver out of the backfield & good at pass protection for a RB, probaly best used as a 3rd down back or as a backup RB.

IMO he's probably ranked too high.

In the 4 drafts I've had since Thursday 8/25, he's gone -

9.07 (87th overall), 34th RB off the board, just about right - no one of note jumps out at me, drafted as 4th RB (which is ideal)
8.03 (73rd overall), 30th RB off the board, ahead of R. Bush, J. Addai, B. Jacobs, M. Manningham, A. Collie, K. Britt
6.12 (72nd overall), 28th RB off the board, ahead of R. Bush, J. Addai, M. Lynch, B. Jacobs, F. Jackson, M. Colston
5.11 (59th overall), 23rd RB off the board, ahead of R. Mathews, C. Wells, R. Bush, J. Addai, BGE, M. Lynch, C. Benson, B. Jacobs, R. Grant, M. Colston, K. Britt, P. Harvin, , A. Collie...

There are people out there who are dafting this guy as a starter... that's absolutely mind-boggling to me. I wouldn't draft this guy any sooner thasn 90th over all if you paid me. I'd much rather grab Helu 50-80 picks later.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/nfl ... -hightower
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Re: Criticizing Cafes preseason rankings...

Postby RBManiac » Sat Sep 03, 2011 3:57 pm

hightower is better than beanie wells as an all around back and ive argued that many times over. even last year strongly recommending drafting hightower well over beanie wells in the later rounds. Hes just a better back than beanie. I see it in real life, the coaches preach it, the teammates and staff. and even by the numbers in fantasy proves it. so why rank beanie ahead of hightower? QB situation? yeah i can see that i guess, but any other reason just doesnt justify his ranking of 34th enough. Hes even got one of the best track records out of RBs for staying healthy all season.

Skins are always horrible but in the fantasy world....The starting running backs (if consistently healthy) for the skins always produce for fantasy teams.


Heres the major problem i see with the judgements of hightower. hes never been a full starting running back. hes never had the carries to produce like an RB 2. But now that the arrows are pointing up for him to get all the carries. I only see my liking of drafting him go up.

i mean whats really not to like about the guy? Hes getting all the carries, hes known for being "that guy" when it comes to goaline carries. Hes a great blocker, one of better RBs for pass catching, and now hes "that guy for all RB duties".


seriously, whats not to like about him this year?
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Re: Criticizing Cafes preseason rankings...

Postby RBManiac » Sat Sep 03, 2011 4:07 pm

he just went in my 10 team PPR keeper league draft

We are 2 QB league

at 5.5. Ahead fo Bush, bradshaw(dont ask me why bradshaw isnt taken yet at this point), Jahvid Best , ryan matthews, Knowshon Moreno ...

20 Shonn Greene
26 Jonathan Stewart
27 Fred Jackson
28 Cedric Benson
29 C.J. Spiller
30 Mike Tolbert
32 Joseph Addai
33 BenJarvus Green-Ellis
36 Ryan Grant
37 James Starks
40 Ladainian Tomlinson.



i personally like Bradshaw, moreno, and best a bit better. but i dont trust Bradshaw staying healthy and i hate that RBBC situation
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Re: Criticizing Cafes preseason rankings...

Postby RBManiac » Sat Sep 03, 2011 4:20 pm

im sorry for the tripple post but i forgot something sexy panther.



you mentioned his career YPC at 3.9.


Im going to argue that thoroughly and ill start off with 2008-2010 Improvement.

2008 YPC 2.8

There is a major misconception about this YPC in 2008.
He was strictly a Goaline back in 2008. Goaline backs never have a high YPC. its impossible mathematically. IF you get the ball at the 1yard line 10 times in a row and score TDS with it. your YPC is going to be 1.0.

Lets not forget he had 10 TDs that year

2009 YPC 4.1

Still. main goaline back, but now being mixed in with regualar carries. Lets not forget the 63 catches.

2010 YPC 4.8

not going any further into detail. if you really stare at those numbers. You will See that Hightowers Points per touch(In PPR) makes him one of the most effective RBs in Fantasy every time he touches the ball.



oh he will have more than 250 touches this year as a starter
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Re: Criticizing Cafes preseason rankings...

Postby Sex Panther » Sat Sep 03, 2011 6:13 pm

OK, in 2008, his rookie season, Hightower was indeed the goalline back for the Cardinals, but by no means was that his sole role on the team. He had 143 carries. He scored 10 times. If memory serves he even started a few games. That team went to the Superbowl. Kurt Warner was the QB - he's a HoFer.

In 2009, Warner still there, the Cards drafted Wells. Wells took some time to adjust to the NFL. Hightower took on the role of 3rd down back, he set a carreer high w/ 63 catches - an impressive number. He still scored 8 TD, his YPC increased. He led the Cardinals in RB touches w/ 206. He also set a career high w/ 5 fumbles (about once every 41 times he touched the ball).

In 2010, no more Warner, Wells (who finsihed his rookie season very strong) had knee surgery just prior to the start of the regualr season (missed the first 2 games, and by all accounts played hurt the majority of the year), Hightower was given the starting job out of the gate. The Cardinals went from being a playoff team (2 years removed from the Super Bowl) to one of the worst teams in the NFL. No more HoF'er at QB. How did Mr. Hightower do? he set a career high in carries w/ 153, set a career high in rushing yards w/ 736 (more about that later), he set a career high in YPC @ 4.8, he tied a career high in fumbles & fumbles lost, he set career lows in TD (5 - more on that later), receptions, receiveing yardage, and yards per catch. He was mediocre at best.

If you look closer at his numbers from 2010, specifically week 2 @ ATL and week 14 vs DEN...

Week 2, upon 1st glance Hightower was ballin - 11 carries, 115 yards, a TD, 2 catches 9 yards... pretty good. Unfortuantely, soemtimes numbers lie. AZ got absolutely destroyed by the Falcons losing 41-7. Hightower had an 80 yard TD run on a broken play. This isn't DeSean Jackson or Chris Johnson, he runs a 4.56 40.

Week 14 vs Denver, Hightower had a phenominal game, outstanding, fantastic, I'm sure he helped many people win in week 1 of their playoffs - 18 rushes, 148 yards, 2 TD (and another fumble), 0 catches - but it was against Denver who ranked 31st in the league defending the run, godawful bad against the run.

So if you take away a gimme game vs a terrible run defense & a meaningless broken play in a blowout... Hightower's total of 153 carries, 736 yards, YPC 4.8 line from 2010, looks more like the back he is - 134 carries, 508 yards, 3.7ish YPC - mediocre at best.

If you want to annoint this guy "the next Shanny back" or "this year's Michael Turner" or what ever else you want to call him - fine, be my guest.

Bottom line is he's being way overdrafted - when he's going in the 5th - he's being overdrafted by like 4 or 5 rounds.

The Redskins are going to be absolutely terrible.

Rex Grossman to Santana Moss or John Beck to Donte Stallworth doesn't have quite the effect at opening things up as Warner to Fitz/Boldin/Breaston...

They (Washington) ranked 30th in rushing in 2010.

They got worse at QB - yes, Grossman or beck is worse than McNabb.

They have like 5 guys competing for touches - and the guy who won't be shy about it... Shannahan is the devil when it comes to fantasy RB.

NYG, ARI, @DAL, @STL, PHI, @CAR, @BUF, SF, @MIA, DAL, @SEA, NYJ, NE, @NYG, MIN, @PHI

Washington has a shot to get blown out by any team on that schedule, they are that bad (w/ the possible exception of Carolina & maybe Buffalo)

The next question I have is this - with Hightower locked down on the Cardinals roster & if he's such an amazing running back, why would a team that has been rebuilding since Warner left spent not 1, but 2 early round draft picks addressing the RB position? Certainly the Cardinals would have been better served addressing other issues w/ such a valuable piece rostered... Hightower was allowed to leave because he is just a guy, an NFL body, a backup running back.
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Re: Criticizing Cafes preseason rankings...

Postby RBManiac » Sat Sep 03, 2011 9:31 pm

lets go back to the wells thing here for a bit.

Wells was never 100% locked in as the starter in 2010. yeah he was set to be, but coaches in the end never feel comfortable making him an everydown back.

They commented many times(please dont make me look it up..its been over a year lol) stating that hightower was more of a complete back than beanie and commented that they will just go with the hot hand. Do to horrible QB play however, beanie didnt do well at all, but even though hightowers production was roughly the same at the time...he still proved to be a bit more effective running the ball. and this can be clearly seen just by looking at the numbers.

Hightower does run a 4.56(IN THE COMBINE 3 YEARS AGO), but hes stronger than beanie, and he knows how to break tackles better.

Tim hightower has improved his 40 time since. He runs a 4.49 low, and a 4.42 high now. the same as beanie wells. they are equally as fast. hightower is 1 inch shorter too. so i give the edge to hightower on speed.

I dont go by speed unless its obvious..like 4.6s and higher. what counts the most is 3-cone drills, and 10 yard dashes. how fast can the RB accelerate. does he like to lower the head alot? does he run more upright? these are all major factors.

i have my bet on hightower again this year. ive won 2 years in a row on fantasy production. I plan to win again this year int he beanie vs hightower arguements
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Re: Criticizing Cafes preseason rankings...

Postby RBManiac » Sat Sep 03, 2011 9:34 pm

heres a youtube vid of hightower beating beanie in a foot race

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bt42ezeRQV4

Lets not forget hightower is a much better bet to stay healthy. he hasnt missed a game yet.


now. Im not saying that beanie is gonna suck this year. I have high hopes. he will be very productive being that only guy in AZ and do to QB situation. i will probably draft beanie over hightower this year..but not by much. i mean. if someone picks beanie right before me...then im going with hightower next . if hightower is taken before me. then ill go right to beanie.

overall. i like them both, but if they are on the same team. i got all my money on hightower having a better season
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