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Re: Criticizing Cafes preseason rankings...

Postby moochman » Sat Sep 03, 2011 11:33 pm

wow, uh Sex Panther did you at least have the decency to throw the man a blanket to roll around in and try and put out the flames.

Couple of things. When I read the title I was curious. I think the Cafe rankings have been historicly and presently at worse credible and often more accurate than some other sites who tend to buy the hype a bit much. The ones that have Hightower rated ahead of backs like Felix Jones, DeAngelo Williams, Michael Turner, for example. One thing you should remember is there was a reason that the Cards drafted a RB and cut loose Hightower. And as RBManiac points out, its not exactly a great RB that he had to beat out. But there was something about fumbling.
Not the best flaw for a RB, a perilous flaw for a RB working for Shanahan. He has done very well this exhibition season, but that doesn't take one of the bitterest realities of running for Shanarat: the bench is but a mistake away. Torain, Helu, or the dude on the bench that you thought was the equipment boy could be next weeks starter. There are no exceptions. That risk alone knocks Tim off his Hightower and into the middle rounds where you can better spend the risk for the reward.

As for Boldin, he is a mystery this season. Is he going to repeat that year he had in Zona, or last year? All tools and little production drops Anquan down the food chain.
Now if that is criticism for the Cafe rankings I'd say that is high praise.
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Re: Criticizing Cafes preseason rankings...

Postby RBManiac » Sat Sep 03, 2011 11:48 pm

i agree... no way hightower is ranked as high as turner.
The bench on the other hand shouldnt phase anyone except roy helu. Torain is an accident waiting to occur, and will most likely be hurt again. as oppose to Hightower whos always healthy.

other than that. most of my arguments are based around sex panthers point of view. its really a beanie vs Hightower thing.

There is a reason other than you have mentioned why hightower was taken out of AZ. It wasnt Beanie. surely surely wasnt beanie. It was a man called Ryan Williams. a freakish RB. I was going to draft Ryan williams in the in the second round(5th round in my league). then he got injured for the season. =(

Im so upset about that. that man would of taken over as the starter by week 8 or at min be in an even timeshare with beanie. AZ was counting on Williams. he was going to be a big piece of that offense for them. well. at least that is what they planned for the rookie. oh well. i guess we will never know for sure.

but back to hightower. that was more of a political move by the cards. sadly i follow the politics in the NFL. i got my ways of finding stuff out.


Other than that. even with all the factors. Hightower deserves to be ranked higher than 34th. at least 31st, as i said in the OP
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Re: Criticizing Cafes preseason rankings...

Postby moochman » Sun Sep 04, 2011 12:00 am

RBManiac wrote:i agree... no way hightower is ranked as high as turner.
The bench on the other hand shouldnt phase anyone except roy helu. Torain is an accident waiting to occur, and will most likely be hurt again. as oppose to Hightower whos always healthy.

other than that. most of my arguments are based around sex panthers point of view. its really a beanie vs Hightower thing.

There is a reason other than you have mentioned why hightower was taken out of AZ. It wasnt Beanie. surely surely wasnt beanie. It was a man called Ryan Williams. a freakish RB. I was going to draft Ryan williams in the in the second round(5th round in my league). then he got injured for the season. =(

Im so upset about that. that man would of taken over as the starter by week 8 or at min be in an even timeshare with beanie. AZ was counting on Williams. he was going to be a big piece of that offense for them. well. at least that is what they planned for the rookie. oh well. i guess we will never know for sure.

but back to hightower. that was more of a political move by the cards. sadly i follow the politics in the NFL. i got my ways of finding stuff out.


Other than that. even with all the factors. Hightower deserves to be ranked higher than 34th. at least 31st, as i said in the OP


You don't need to tell me how iffy the bench is in Washington, you need to tell Shanarat. And he ain't listening. Not concerned over the politics, suspect there were other reasons hightower wasn't loved there. Problem is those 'politics' can follow a player. Doesn't need another reason to make the rat mad, and he angers easily. I rechecked the rankings and could see him outperforming some of those above him, but he would have to play, start, regularly. Not sure that will happen. If his exhibition stats hold true he is a very good value where he is ranked. You know the flip side.
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Re: Criticizing Cafes preseason rankings...

Postby RBManiac » Sun Sep 04, 2011 12:39 am

im excited to see how moreno will do this year. my keeper league draft is still going. been going on for 3 days now. we are on the 8th round. Somehow moreno almost fell to me. i jst grabbed the last remaining good player off the board. Percy harvin =)
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Re: Criticizing Cafes preseason rankings...

Postby Sex Panther » Sun Sep 04, 2011 9:31 am

It's not a Beanie vs. Hightower thing, it's a Hightower is being way overdradted/over rated thing. Washington sucks and Hightower is mediocre at best, yet he is being drafted in the 5th round - like as a lowend RB2/highend RB3 - I just don't see that. IMO he's being drafted like 4 or 5 rounds early.
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Re: Criticizing Cafes preseason rankings...

Postby mattb47 » Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:51 am

Sex Panther wrote:It's not a Beanie vs. Hightower thing, it's a Hightower is being way overdradted/over rated thing. Washington sucks and Hightower is mediocre at best, yet he is being drafted in the 5th round - like as a lowend RB2/highend RB3 - I just don't see that. IMO he's being drafted like 4 or 5 rounds early.


I agree with this general assessment. To me, Hightower is the kind of back that if he is available later on after I'm done picking a lot of my "key" guys and need a RB3 or RB4 who could be a decent fill in guy or something, then I might take him but I definitely don't trust him to be someone I want to be relying on for anything at all this season. I wouldn't feel comfortable at all with him as my RB2 and not really even as my primary backup RB or anything like that. I don't think Hightower is anything special talent wise and the combination of that fact and how fickle Shanny can be just makes him a risk to even keep his job all season as a starter. Plenty of options out there so why take a chance there?
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Re: Criticizing Cafes preseason rankings...

Postby RBManiac » Sun Sep 04, 2011 4:13 pm

i know, but noone said anything about him having to be drafted in the 5th round even as high as 6th. Hes a safe pick in thel ladder part of the 7th round PPR
and being mediocre at best is not a fact. His upside is an high end RB2 in ppr. his low side is a low end RB3. He is a steal in round 9+

The OP is about him being ranked 34th. hes not going to be the worst starting RB
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Re: Criticizing Cafes preseason rankings...

Postby Purple1 » Sun Sep 04, 2011 6:56 pm

mattb47 wrote:
Sex Panther wrote:It's not a Beanie vs. Hightower thing, it's a Hightower is being way overdradted/over rated thing. Washington sucks and Hightower is mediocre at best, yet he is being drafted in the 5th round - like as a lowend RB2/highend RB3 - I just don't see that. IMO he's being drafted like 4 or 5 rounds early.


I agree with this general assessment. To me, Hightower is the kind of back that if he is available later on after I'm done picking a lot of my "key" guys and need a RB3 or RB4 who could be a decent fill in guy or something, then I might take him but I definitely don't trust him to be someone I want to be relying on for anything at all this season. I wouldn't feel comfortable at all with him as my RB2 and not really even as my primary backup RB or anything like that. I don't think Hightower is anything special talent wise and the combination of that fact and how fickle Shanny can be just makes him a risk to even keep his job all season as a starter. Plenty of options out there so why take a chance there?


You guys are so focused on the floor you can't see the ceiling.

I don't buy into whole Washington sucks argument. The differnence between a 6-10 and a 10-6 is smaller than you think and year to year. The rat has a history of very productive featured backs its only been recently that his backfeilds have been a mess and IMO thats been more due to injurys than anything else. Remember Terral Davis, Mike Anderson, Orlandis Gary, Clinton Portis and more recently there have been stretches of great #'s for Torain and Hills until they were sidelined with injurys. I think the rat was trying to feature Torain but he just can't handle the work load so he traded for somebody that can and IMO the fumbling thing is being way overblown.

While I agree THT is not the second coming of Walter Payton that dosent really matter. Production in the NFL is just as depentant on oppertunity and situation as it is on talent. Theres tons of examples of RB's changing teams and putting up carear years, Micheal Turner, Chester Taylor and Lamont Jordan off the top of my head. Not to forget all the back up RB in good rushing offense's who step in and produce just like the starter when they are sidelined. Every year RB's that no one expects to do anything come out of the woodwork and produce solid to great fantasy #'s. I can see THT easily in the top 10 RB's and would not be suprised if he finishes top 5. IMO theres no more risk taking THT as your RB2 than any other RB, I've been playing FF for far to long and have learned there are no "safe" picks

Heres a challenge for you guys I'll take THT and you take one of the RB you have ranked near and ahead of him. Felix Jones, Cedric Benson, Fred Jackson, Shonn Green, Reggie Bush, Beanie Wells hell I don't care any RB ousider your top 10 even but just ONE.

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Lets see who has the better season!
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Re: Criticizing Cafes preseason rankings...

Postby Osk » Wed Sep 07, 2011 3:50 am

Tim has a higher ceiling than any other RB you'll find in the 4th round (in a 12 or 14 team league) or beyond. If you can grab him in the 5th or 6th, I wouldn't hesitate. If he's lasting past the 6th round, you're either in a 10 team league or in some n00b league. Hightower is the type of player that wins championships for teams: players chosen in the middle rounds that end up putting up 1st/2nd round production.

For the record, the same is true of Felix Jones, who should be drafted before Hightower (since his team is much better). No risk, no reward. Go ahead and pick Cedric Benson, who'll help you make the playoffs. Not bad. But then, watch the guy with Felix or Hightower cruise into the Finals. You're not going to win 3 games in a row in the playoffs if your players consistently only score 8 points a week. Playoffs yes, Championship no.

IF you do pick these guys, though, make sure you draft some good depth behind them in case they're not as good as predicted (or injuries occur). You should have good depth in any situation anyway, but especially when you're taking a risk like this.
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Re: Criticizing Cafes preseason rankings...

Postby default01 » Wed Sep 07, 2011 11:23 am

I think Hightower being ranked so low is probably more of a result of the Cafe rankings taking time to gather and not being updated regularly. His ADP has been steadily climbing for the past month as his role in the Washington offense has become more clear.

As far as criticism, I actually have a bigger problem with inconsistencies in PPR vs Standard in the Cafe rankings.

Forte is 16 in PPR and 10 in Standard. Why is such a good pass catching RB worth more in Standard? He even goes from RB10 Standard to RB11 PPR.
Blount drops from 21 Standard to 32 PPR but Greene only drops from 28 to 31. Why does Greene gain that much value relative to Blount when neither should catch much?
Bush goes from 60 Standard to 41 PPR but Hillis stays constant at 44. Why does Bush gain so much relative to Hillis when both will have a lot of receptions?

I haven't gone over rankings in great detail, but those are the few things that really jumped out at me.
Last edited by default01 on Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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