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Re: Dunta Robinson

Postby Hippo45 » Wed Sep 21, 2011 2:34 am

ATLbraves wrote:Here's a link just in case you have forgotten some of Harrison's "dirty" hits:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BfxMalwza4&feature=fvsr


After watching the replays here are my thoughts (note I am not a Steeler or Falcon fan):

1st hit: Looked more like a wrestling move. Didn't look like it put Vince Young into any serious danger. Plus, there was another steeler player making the hit. Overall not a very dirty hit.

2nd hit: Yes, Harrison lowers his head, but it was into the back of Brees and not his helmet. Also, Harrison doesn't launch himself into Brees. Wasn't a dirty hit, but definitely should have been flagged because it was a late hit. Abraham made a similar hit on Kafka and I highly doubt he will get fined for it.

3rd hit: Yes, this one was helmet-to-helmet, but if his teammates did not tackle him right before he made contact, then it would have been a hit to the side of his body. The only way Harrison could have made contact with the player was by hitting the head. He should have put on the breaks, but he was already heading full speed at him. This one should have been fined, but I understand why Harrison would have made a hit like that.

4th hit: This hit was on a defenseless receiver and the receiver was lowering his head as he was making a turn. However, to Harrison's defense he did lead with his arms as you can clearly see. This play should have been fined, but 75,000 on this hit is absurd compared to what Robinson is getting fined.

5th hit: The last hit looked like a clean hit.

The difference between Harrison's hits and Robinson's hits are that Harrison will at least attempt to use his arms. The only one he doesn't use his arms on is the 3rd hit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fB6TEXTJceo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhET1IC0gMo

In these videos, Robinson just grazes the receiver with his arm. He is only trying to go for the head in both of the these videos.
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Re: Dunta Robinson

Postby ATLbraves » Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:07 am

You can not make wrestling moves like that in the NFL. They make it very clear that you can not "pile drive" someone into the ground. That is why Nick Fairly got so much hate for what he did to Jordan Jefferson last year in the AU-LSU game, cause if he would of tackled Jefferson that way in the NFL he would of been fined. And it's hard to tell, but it does look like Harrison could of hit Brees in the upper back. Was still very close to his helmet though. Either way, you can not lead with your helmet, and that is exactly what Harrison did. Just like he did in the Cribbs, Massaquoi, and Fitzpatrick tackle. He lead with his helmet every single time.
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Re: Dunta Robinson

Postby mattb47 » Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:34 pm

Hippo45 wrote:
ATLbraves wrote:Here's a link just in case you have forgotten some of Harrison's "dirty" hits:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BfxMalwza4&feature=fvsr


After watching the replays here are my thoughts (note I am not a Steeler or Falcon fan):

1st hit: Looked more like a wrestling move. Didn't look like it put Vince Young into any serious danger. Plus, there was another steeler player making the hit. Overall not a very dirty hit.

2nd hit: Yes, Harrison lowers his head, but it was into the back of Brees and not his helmet. Also, Harrison doesn't launch himself into Brees. Wasn't a dirty hit, but definitely should have been flagged because it was a late hit. Abraham made a similar hit on Kafka and I highly doubt he will get fined for it.

3rd hit: Yes, this one was helmet-to-helmet, but if his teammates did not tackle him right before he made contact, then it would have been a hit to the side of his body. The only way Harrison could have made contact with the player was by hitting the head. He should have put on the breaks, but he was already heading full speed at him. This one should have been fined, but I understand why Harrison would have made a hit like that.

4th hit: This hit was on a defenseless receiver and the receiver was lowering his head as he was making a turn. However, to Harrison's defense he did lead with his arms as you can clearly see. This play should have been fined, but 75,000 on this hit is absurd compared to what Robinson is getting fined.

5th hit: The last hit looked like a clean hit.

The difference between Harrison's hits and Robinson's hits are that Harrison will at least attempt to use his arms. The only one he doesn't use his arms on is the 3rd hit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fB6TEXTJceo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhET1IC0gMo

In these videos, Robinson just grazes the receiver with his arm. He is only trying to go for the head in both of the these videos.


Thank you, I'm glad someone who isn't a Steelers fan can see what I'm trying to say. Harrison just plays at such a crazy speed and is so intense that he's bound to have some brutal looking hits, but the difference is that he's at least TRYING to tackle the right way and sometimes the circumstances end with him colliding in the wrong way, but the intent to injure doesn't seem as evident as it does in Robinson's hits. That's what I'm trying to get at here...
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Re: Dunta Robinson

Postby ATLbraves » Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:56 pm

mattb47 wrote:
Hippo45 wrote:
ATLbraves wrote:Here's a link just in case you have forgotten some of Harrison's "dirty" hits:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BfxMalwza4&feature=fvsr


After watching the replays here are my thoughts (note I am not a Steeler or Falcon fan):

1st hit: Looked more like a wrestling move. Didn't look like it put Vince Young into any serious danger. Plus, there was another steeler player making the hit. Overall not a very dirty hit.

2nd hit: Yes, Harrison lowers his head, but it was into the back of Brees and not his helmet. Also, Harrison doesn't launch himself into Brees. Wasn't a dirty hit, but definitely should have been flagged because it was a late hit. Abraham made a similar hit on Kafka and I highly doubt he will get fined for it.

3rd hit: Yes, this one was helmet-to-helmet, but if his teammates did not tackle him right before he made contact, then it would have been a hit to the side of his body. The only way Harrison could have made contact with the player was by hitting the head. He should have put on the breaks, but he was already heading full speed at him. This one should have been fined, but I understand why Harrison would have made a hit like that.

4th hit: This hit was on a defenseless receiver and the receiver was lowering his head as he was making a turn. However, to Harrison's defense he did lead with his arms as you can clearly see. This play should have been fined, but 75,000 on this hit is absurd compared to what Robinson is getting fined.

5th hit: The last hit looked like a clean hit.

The difference between Harrison's hits and Robinson's hits are that Harrison will at least attempt to use his arms. The only one he doesn't use his arms on is the 3rd hit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fB6TEXTJceo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhET1IC0gMo

In these videos, Robinson just grazes the receiver with his arm. He is only trying to go for the head in both of the these videos.


Thank you, I'm glad someone who isn't a Steelers fan can see what I'm trying to say. Harrison just plays at such a crazy speed and is so intense that he's bound to have some brutal looking hits, but the difference is that he's at least TRYING to tackle the right way and sometimes the circumstances end with him colliding in the wrong way, but the intent to injure doesn't seem as evident as it does in Robinson's hits. That's what I'm trying to get at here...

Yeah and Dunta doesn't play with intensity and speed... If you watch the video I posted it's pretty evident that Harrison does have dirty hits too. They both are guilty, there is no need to crucify Dunta and act like Harrison is a innocent saint that gets unlucky and unfairly judged.
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Re: Dunta Robinson

Postby mattb47 » Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:20 pm

I'm not even sure what you're trying to argue anymore...Harrison doesn't head hunt and try to hurt guys and it seems very much like that's exactly what Robinson has done especially on those two hits on Eagles' receivers. End of argument there as far as I'm concerned, and for the record, I don't think that Robinson goes to tackle with the same kind of speed and intensity that a James Harrison does, that's why Harrison wins Def POY awards and Robinson doesn't...they're on completely different levels caliber wise.
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Re: Dunta Robinson

Postby ATLbraves » Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:06 am

mattb47 wrote:I'm not even sure what you're trying to argue anymore...Harrison doesn't head hunt and try to hurt guys and it seems very much like that's exactly what Robinson has done especially on those two hits on Eagles' receivers. End of argument there as far as I'm concerned, and for the record, I don't think that Robinson goes to tackle with the same kind of speed and intensity that a James Harrison does, that's why Harrison wins Def POY awards and Robinson doesn't...they're on completely different levels caliber wise.

Speed and intensity is not all that makes up a Def POY. Dunta does play with speed and intensity, and if you disagree then you have never watched him play. Practically every CB in the league plays with speed, thats why they are CB's. And you are right, there is no need to argue this anymore because you are EXTREMELY bias'd if you dont think Harrison head hunts. Plus you are saying Dunta tries to hurt people based off of 2 plays. If you want to label someone's entire career off of 2 plays, by all means go ahead. But that is completely wrong imo.
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Re: Dunta Robinson

Postby mattb47 » Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:34 am

ATLbraves wrote:
mattb47 wrote:I'm not even sure what you're trying to argue anymore...Harrison doesn't head hunt and try to hurt guys and it seems very much like that's exactly what Robinson has done especially on those two hits on Eagles' receivers. End of argument there as far as I'm concerned, and for the record, I don't think that Robinson goes to tackle with the same kind of speed and intensity that a James Harrison does, that's why Harrison wins Def POY awards and Robinson doesn't...they're on completely different levels caliber wise.

Speed and intensity is not all that makes up a Def POY. Dunta does play with speed and intensity, and if you disagree then you have never watched him play. Practically every CB in the league plays with speed, thats why they are CB's. And you are right, there is no need to argue this anymore because you are EXTREMELY bias'd if you dont think Harrison head hunts. Plus you are saying Dunta tries to hurt people based off of 2 plays. If you want to label someone's entire career off of 2 plays, by all means go ahead. But that is completely wrong imo.


I'm not labeling a career on two plays but it is VERY telling about a player that he probably got more negative attention for a hit from the general viewing public of any hit last season for his hit on Jackson and then proceeds to tackle another Eagles receiver in EXACTLY the same way, he just happened to not land it quite as squarely this time. Bottom line is that he is gaining a rep now as a dirty player and those two plays make it hard to argue against.

Show me where Harrison head hunts and tries to hurt people...show me. The guy plays intense and goes all out all the time but he doesn't try to hurt people and he doesn't play dirty like these two plays show Robinson to play. And I'm not talking about just "speed" as you're thinking of it, but just playing so fast that he doesn't have time to stop his momentum for a lot of those hits that look so bad and pretty much all of his bad hits are with extenuating circumstances changing the situation at the last second which made it look worse than what he was going for. Robinson's are him by himself and him going high for the head. That's just uncalled for and there's no place for it in the game.
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Re: Dunta Robinson

Postby ATLbraves » Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:28 am

I already posted the link to the video once, but I guess I will post it again. And if you watch the video you can see Harrison going for the head in every single hit except MAYBE the hit on Massaquoi, in which you can argue he was lowering his head into the tackle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BfxMalwza4&feature=related


here is a great article arguing both sides of our argument:
http://www.blitzburghblog.com/2010-articles/october-2010/is-james-harrison-dirty.html

Simply put, these kind of players make football. No need to crucify them, we all watch football to see the big hits and touchdowns.
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Re: Dunta Robinson

Postby mattb47 » Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:13 am

Sorry, there's a difference between "going for the head" and happening to hit the guy in the head. Those hits are not him head hunting and trying to hurt a guy which is the difference between his hits and Robinson's hits. That's all I've been saying this whole time...not saying that Harrison doesn't have some bad hits that were fine-worthy or that he doesn't make some mistakes like that with how he plays but I don't think the same intent to injure is there. There is no other way you can really look at the hits that Robinson made other than that he was flat out trying to take those guys out by going after their helmet and leading with his. Keep arguing if you like but I have said what I was going to say and you seem to keep on ignoring it and focusing on other things to try not to answer the real issue...and that is that Robinson is absolutely getting a justified rep for a dirty player based on him going out and trying to outright injure people with dirty hits.
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Re: Dunta Robinson

Postby ATLbraves » Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:03 pm

mattb47 wrote:Sorry, there's a difference between "going for the head" and happening to hit the guy in the head. Those hits are not him head hunting and trying to hurt a guy which is the difference between his hits and Robinson's hits. That's all I've been saying this whole time...not saying that Harrison doesn't have some bad hits that were fine-worthy or that he doesn't make some mistakes like that with how he plays but I don't think the same intent to injure is there. There is no other way you can really look at the hits that Robinson made other than that he was flat out trying to take those guys out by going after their helmet and leading with his. Keep arguing if you like but I have said what I was going to say and you seem to keep on ignoring it and focusing on other things to try not to answer the real issue...and that is that Robinson is absolutely getting a justified rep for a dirty player based on him going out and trying to outright injure people with dirty hits.

Are you serious? You don't think James Harrison is going for the head when he clearly leads with his helmet and hits the other player in the helmet? So when he lead with his helmet and hit Cribbs directly in the helmet, that is not head hunting? Or when he lead with his helmet and hit Brees in the back, about 3 inches away from his helmet, instead of tackling him lower in the back? Or when he lead with his helmet and destroyed Massaquoi, hitting him directly in the helmet. Or when he lead with his helmet and hit Fitzpatrick in the helmet. How is that not going for the head? The NFL clearly has rules that you can't hit a guy above the chest, in every single tackle in that video with exception to the illegal tackle on Vince Young, Harrison is hitting above the chest. And IMO the only hit you can argue was an accident was the hit on Massaquoi, since Massaquoi did slightly lower his head going into the tackle.

You can think what you want about Dunta, there is really nothing to argue there because it is clear why he is getting the bad rep. But it is ridiculous that you are trying to act like James Harrison is some saint that gets unfairly judged. Dunta has had 2 bad hits in his career that I know of. James Harrison has atleast 7, including pile-driving Vince Young when he could of just tackled him and diving at Jay Cutler's knees trying to take him out after Cutler clearly had gotten rid of the ball. He also tackled Bo Scaife in the same way, almost shattering Scaife's knee caps. When Harrison was asked about the hit on Scaife after the game he said if he hits high, then he gets fined. So he went low.

And how do you know the intent of James Harrison? You say he isn't trying to hurt people? Well how come he has said in an interview that he tries to hurt people, not injure them?

Direct quote from James Harrison:
"I want to hurt people, not injure them,"


I personally have nothing wrong with the way Dunta or James Harrison play, I would love it if James Harrison played for the Falcons. I just have a problem with you trying to act like James Harrison has been unfairly accused of being dirty. When it is plainly obvious in my opinion.
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