Can the Eagles win without Vick? - Fantasy Football Cafe 2014 Fantasy Football Cafe


Return to Football Talk

Can the Eagles win without Vick?

Moderator: Football Moderators

Can the Eagles win without Vick?

Postby joejlitz » Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:32 pm

I don't know how long he will be out, but with him the Eagles are a 12-win team, IMO.

I think McCoy, Maclin, DJAX, our sick pass rush, and the best secondary in the league will still deliver 10 wins with Vince Young. Anyone else have an opinion?
"There is no charge for awesomeness or attractiveness." - Po (Kung Fu Panda)
Image
joejlitz
Mod in Retirement
Mod in Retirement

User avatar
EditorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeCafe SpotterCafe MusketeerPick 3 Weekly WinnerMatchup Meltdown SurvivorCafe Blackjack Weekly Winner
Posts: 7050
(Past Year: 37)
Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Home Cafe: Football
Location: G-14 Classified

Re: Can the Eagles win without Vick?

Postby bazzy_51 » Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:39 pm

Young going to be ready to go next week if Vick can't?

I just posted on this somewhere else, but I really don't see Vick being out for any period of time. I understand it was determined he had a concussion, but we've seen much worse in the last few years and seen the player back on the field the next week (and yes I know there is a flips side to that coin). I just don't see, if its a week, it being more then a week.

On to your actual post tho, if Young is healthy I really see him being able to run this team to playoffs. Hell Kafka who was no where NEAR ready to be thrust into a potential come back, game winning drive was able to look good with a few throws. Vick is a huge talent, but the talent around Vick is just as big as he is. McCoy will see more touches, which definitely isn't a bad thing, with more true run plays it will also open up the passing game for Young to see more lanes.

I think tho one player who could make or break a playoff run with Young at helm tho is Celek. If Celek doesn't step up to his potential in the passing game I think it may hamper a bit. That WR core is solid top to bottom, but Brent could make a huge difference for the Eagles.

I don't know as much about the Eagles as many other here do, but what I have seen in two games this year and a couple preseason games with Young at helm, he has the talent around him and the talent within himself to do it.
Image

A big thanks to deluxe_247 for the sweet sig!
bazzy_51
Head Coach
Head Coach

User avatar
Fantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 1707
Joined: 4 Jul 2006
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Can the Eagles win without Vick?

Postby mattb47 » Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:45 am

I think Vick is worth more than 2 wins which is what you're saying he's worth by saying their a 12 win team without him and a 10 win team with him. Sure they have a lot of talent but that defense is VERY susceptible to the run and for how great they are in coverage, I think teams can and will find ways to pass on them like Matt Ryan was able to at times today. I think without Vick they are maybe able to squeeze into the playoffs, I think if they went the rest of the year without Vick they would go maybe 9-7 as I think Vick is just a difference maker for that team in so many ways.

Part of the reason those receivers can have all that success and McCoy can have all that success is because every team's gameplan is completely focused on how to stop Michael Vick. You take that away and teams can and will shut this team down.
Image
mattb47
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Fantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeCafe MusketeerCafe Blackjack Weekly Winner
Posts: 14238
Joined: 29 Nov 2004
Home Cafe: Football

Re: Can the Eagles win without Vick?

Postby joejlitz » Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:21 am

mattb47 wrote:I think Vick is worth more than 2 wins which is what you're saying he's worth by saying their a 12 win team without him and a 10 win team with him. Sure they have a lot of talent but that defense is VERY susceptible to the run and for how great they are in coverage, I think teams can and will find ways to pass on them like Matt Ryan was able to at times today. I think without Vick they are maybe able to squeeze into the playoffs, I think if they went the rest of the year without Vick they would go maybe 9-7 as I think Vick is just a difference maker for that team in so many ways.

Part of the reason those receivers can have all that success and McCoy can have all that success is because every team's gameplan is completely focused on how to stop Michael Vick. You take that away and teams can and will shut this team down.

McCoy and DJAX were quite successful with McNabb. That's not the issue.

Also, you might be right about the 9 wins, but I think the difference with/without Vick is the difference between a dominant team and one that gets the job done. i.e. 12 wins while kicking many teams butt, or 10 wins with a lot of close calls.

As for the run, the Eagles have always been unsuccessful against the run under Andy Reid. They have a "bend, don't break" philosophy that is to bulk up on DBs and the pass rush. It's ok to give up 5-8 yard runs from time to time - even 15-20, just don't give up the big pass play; the playmakers will eventually get a sack, tackle for a loss, or turnover. Then, get the ball back to the offense, get an early lead, and force the other team to pass into our strength.

That's always been their style with Reid and their rush defense is no worse this year (or maybe not much worse) than it has been in the years we went 13-3 (1 time), 12-4 (2 times), 11-5 (3 times), and 10-6 (2 times). So, they've been 10-6 or better 8 times since 2000 when Andy Reid got here. Their rush defense would worry me, too if I wasn't used to seeing the Eagles game plan every week for 11 years under Reid. I think that part will be ok.

The question for me is, when we get the ball back, will we be able to take advantage of it and force them into throwing? If so, we win. If not, we lose.
"There is no charge for awesomeness or attractiveness." - Po (Kung Fu Panda)
Image
joejlitz
Mod in Retirement
Mod in Retirement

User avatar
EditorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeCafe SpotterCafe MusketeerPick 3 Weekly WinnerMatchup Meltdown SurvivorCafe Blackjack Weekly Winner
Posts: 7050
(Past Year: 37)
Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Home Cafe: Football
Location: G-14 Classified

Re: Can the Eagles win without Vick?

Postby Dolfan19 » Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:44 am

Young is a winning QB who looked really good in the preseason. Eagles shouldn't have a problem getting 12 wins with either Young or Vick.
Dolfan19
Head Coach
Head Coach

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertMock(ing) DrafterPick 3 Weekly WinnerMatchup Meltdown SurvivorCafe Blackjack Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 1372
(Past Year: 53)
Joined: 3 Sep 2010
Home Cafe: Football
Location: Miami

Re: Can the Eagles win without Vick?

Postby OldManRiver » Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:03 am

However Young still has a lingering hammy injury and has himself said he doesn't have a complete grasp of the offense. If Vick doesn't play next week im quite sure Kafka would get the start with us bringing in another QB or maybe just having Ronnie brown be our backup.
OldManRiver
Special Teams Staff
Special Teams Staff

User avatar

Posts: 194
Joined: 12 Oct 2004
Home Cafe: Football

Re: Can the Eagles win without Vick?

Postby Stevooo » Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:57 am

Give the rock to McCoy and ride him for a few weeks.
I drink because of the 1998 NFC championship game.


12 team big $$$ non PPR league - QB RB RB WR WR TE D K

QB: Rivers
RB: Murray, Matthews, R.Bush, D. Brown
WR: Julio Jones, Colston, VJax, Garcon
TE: Witten, Gresham
K: Kaeding
DST: SEA
Stevooo
Offensive Coordinator
Offensive Coordinator

User avatar
CafeholicMock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 693
(Past Year: 23)
Joined: 9 Sep 2011
Home Cafe: Football

Re: Can the Eagles win without Vick?

Postby DraftDodger » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:13 am

They can win without Vick (if it comes to that) but I'm not sure they can win without Vick or Young. Kafka shows a lot of promise but you'd hate to throw him into the fire right now. That said, the Eagles have stacked their team with talent, and I'm confident they'll continue to field a competitive team.
DraftDodger
Head Coach
Head Coach

User avatar
Cafe Writer
Posts: 1400
Joined: 24 Aug 2002
Home Cafe: Football
Location: The Cafe

Re: Can the Eagles win without Vick?

Postby 16FAC » Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:50 pm

The real question is: Would the Eagles have to change their game plan without Vick? I think the answer is yes and I don't like the odds of Young or Kafka running the ball. That means McCoy gets a heavier dose between the tackles and as well as he does in that limited role, I'm not sure the team wants to thrust him into a position similar to Adrian Peterson when he is accostomed to the "Brian Westbrook" role.
16FAC
Head Coach
Head Coach

User avatar
Response Team
Posts: 1629
(Past Year: 120)
Joined: 24 Sep 2004
Home Cafe: Football

Re: Can the Eagles win without Vick?

Postby mattb47 » Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:58 pm

Sorry, but Vince Young is no Michael Vick and does not and will not command the kind of respect from defenses that Vick currently does. The entire gameplan of opposing defenses has to do with how to stop Vick and contain him, with Young back there teams will be happy to just keep him from running and making him beat them through the air and concentrate on coverage. It changes the ENTIRE dynamic of the Eagles offense and their defense has done nothing to instill any confidence whatsoever. They may go with the bend but not break but with those CBs they were supposed to be a shut down defense as far as passing goes but they're not. They are particularly weak against TEs and RBs both rushing and receiving and I don't think they have the same kind of ability to just outscore teams without Vick like they do with him.
Image
mattb47
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Fantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeCafe MusketeerCafe Blackjack Weekly Winner
Posts: 14238
Joined: 29 Nov 2004
Home Cafe: Football

Next

Return to Football Talk

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Start & Sit Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Get Ready...
The 2014 NFL season kicks off in 4:56 hours
(and 39 days)
2014 NFL Schedule


  • Fantasy Football
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact