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Can the Eagles win without Vick?

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Re: Can the Eagles win without Vick?

Postby dgan » Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:11 pm

With or without Vick, they need to fix their rush defense (overall, they're pretty good, but when they get gashed, they get hurt bad) and center field pass defense. Their LB/Safety play is killing them in pass coverage.

Can they win without Vick? Sure. But like Peyton Manning (and yet, NOTHING like Manning), Vick hides a multitude of sins. That offensive line is b a d - sunblock offers more protection than those guys are right now. I like Young's mobility to at least be able to extend plays. I'm not sure how long Kafka stays upright once d-coordinators gameplan for him.

And, ultimately, I think you have to keep everyone else healthy also. You need McCoy, Maclin and Jackson AND Vick to do damage in the playoffs. So I would make sure Vick is not only healthy, but give him an extra week after that just to be sure he doesn't have a Steve Young moment. The regular season doesn't matter if any of those guys is in the hospital come playoff time.

joejlitz wrote:...our sick pass rush, and the best secondary in the league...


Are you watching the same secondary I'm watching? Talent may be there, but I haven't seen them put it together...and Atlanta should be in the market for a new left tackle...that was embarrassing.
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Re: Can the Eagles win without Vick?

Postby joejlitz » Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:14 pm

mattb47 wrote:Sorry, but Vince Young is no Michael Vick and does not and will not command the kind of respect from defenses that Vick currently does. The entire gameplan of opposing defenses has to do with how to stop Vick and contain him, with Young back there teams will be happy to just keep him from running and making him beat them through the air and concentrate on coverage. It changes the ENTIRE dynamic of the Eagles offense and their defense has done nothing to instill any confidence whatsoever. They may go with the bend but not break but with those CBs they were supposed to be a shut down defense as far as passing goes but they're not. They are particularly weak against TEs and RBs both rushing and receiving and I don't think they have the same kind of ability to just outscore teams without Vick like they do with him.

Not to go too far down this road, as this is a bit of a separate argument, but to say our team was supposed to be a shut down passing defense because of our CBs isn't accurate. I don't think anyone in Philly expected that. CBs don't cover the TE or RBs and again, since Reid has been here, we've sucked against the TE, but we've still won 10 games in 8/11 seasons.

Now as for the CBs, they gave up 71 yards passing and 1 TD to ATL WRs and 121 yards and 0 TDs to STL WRs last week. I've got a bet with my buddy, using those metrics to see who has the better secondary in the league - PHL or NYJ. We'll see at the end of the season.

(BTW - they take on the NYG next weekend and I don't advise playing Nicks...since the NYG don't have a TE, we should be in pretty good shape)
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Re: Can the Eagles win without Vick?

Postby moochman » Tue Sep 20, 2011 7:25 pm

It is going to be harder for the Iggles without Vick, but if they can get Young or even Kaftka not to sustain a drive or two, I trust that OC Mornhenwig will be able to keep that O moving.
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Re: Can the Eagles win without Vick?

Postby buffalobillsrul2002 » Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:11 pm

Without Vick, the Eagles are going to need to utilize a power-running game. Problem is, they don't really have that type of team; they are set up as a high-flying speed-based offense. I think the key guy for them is going to be Avant if Vick is down. With Kafka in, they will need to utilize more of a short-passing type of attack and Avant is well-suited for it(he's basically the TE in that offense, Celek is needed to block too often because the OL struggles.) I also think you are going to see McCoy get worked pretty heavy, but I think it'll be dumpoffs instead of running plays. I also think you'll see a ton of Ronnie Brown. I wouldn't be surprised to see a 15/10 split between McCoy/Brown (with McCoy tacking on another 5 receptions at least, if not more). If Young plays (which it doesn't seem like he's ready to yet), then I think they'll be able to utilize the same offense they do now. Basically I think Avant becomes a playable PPR guy if Kafka starts.

On the defensive side of the ball, I'm a little more worried. If you are going to employ the bend-dont-break defense, you need to be good in the red zone. The Eagles weren't last year, and weren't Sunday night. Their LB are simply terrible, other than that the D is actually pretty good. Honestly, I'm guessing they'll be middle-of-the-road there. They still have a slightly-above-average offense and a good D, with maybe average special teams or so. I'd say they are a little above .500 without Vick.

This doens't matter though Vick will play enough anyways that they will make the playoffs.
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Michael Vick

Postby Thor » Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:05 pm

and THAT is exactly why you don't waste your first round pick on Michael Vick
14 Team 5 pts per 5 receptions
QB, 2RBs, 3WRs, TE, FLEX(WR/TE), K, DST
QB- Romo, Freeman, Manuel
RB- Sproles, J Bell, Bernard, W McGahee
WR - Megatron, D Bryant, V Brown, A Jeffery, R Randle, P Harvin(IR)
TE- J Graham, Sudfeld
K- Hartley
DST - Dallas
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Re: Can the Eagles win without Vick?

Postby Cowboys 4 life » Sun Sep 25, 2011 5:22 pm

I don't think they can win without Vick. I originally thought the team was strong enough to recover but after today I don't think they can. Bitter Sweet for me. Glad to see the Eagles lose as always ;-D but also Have Vick in my money league.
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Re: Can the Eagles win without Vick?

Postby latsprewell20002000 » Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:08 pm

moochman wrote:It is going to be harder for the Iggles without Vick, but if they can get Young or even Kaftka not to sustain a drive or two, I trust that OC Mornhenwig will be able to keep that O moving.


There you are just showing your love for Mornhenwig lol!! Just kidding. I dont think the Eagles can win without Vick and im starting to think that they cant win with him either. A lot of people in this post are talking about playoffs this playoffs that...... They are 1-2. They better string some wins together if they want to make the playoffs. Washington beats Dallas tonight and goes 3-0 and things are not looking good for the Eagles. Could Vick be fine and they rip off 6-7 in a row, sure.
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Re: Can the Eagles win without Vick?

Postby mattb47 » Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:20 pm

Let's see who they have left on the schedule:
vs. SF
@ BUF
@ WAS
BYE
vs. DAL
vs. CHI
vs. ARI
@ NYG
vs. NE
@ SEA
@ MIA
vs. NYJ
@ DAL
vs. WAS

Their best chance for wins are definitely their games against the AFC West with games vs. SF, @ SEA, and vs. ARI as well as a game @ MIA. The rest of the games don't look quite so easy especially if Vick isn't able to play for some of them. I think with Vick they still may struggle to be any better than a wildcard team and without him they probably don't come close to the playoffs.
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Re: Can the Eagles win without Vick?

Postby u_fig_eater » Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:21 pm

I'm not sure they can win with him. They can't stop the run (131 yd/gm) or protect the quarterback (saw on ESPN Vick is hit or hurried on over 30% of his attempts).
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Re: Can the Eagles win without Vick?

Postby Dawinner127 » Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:27 pm

It was confirmed that his hand isn't actually broken, but how much will this contusion affect him? Is he going to miss any time now that we know his hand is not broken?
A win next week and all is forgotten.
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