Counter to my Harvin/Best for his Bowe/Clark? WHIR

[schmidty]

This is a 12-team 0.5 PPR redraft. Deep benches (8 spots) make for few good FA options. We start: QB, RB, RB, WR, WR, R/W, TE, K, DEF, D. My team is scoring well, but I've suffered horrific gut-wrenching close losses in the last 2 weeks to drop me to 1-3. QB and RB are strengths. WR and TE are not. It's looking like I was wrong in my preseason assessment of Santonio Holmes and Percy Harvin. I was high on both as draft bargains that could challenge for WR1 status. The season is still young, and I don't see anything wrong with their play per se ... their QBs seem to be killing their value. TE is a bit of a nightmare. I know there seem to be tons of sleeper TEs this year ... I missed all of them. Actually, I drafted Pettigrew but dropped him for Fred Davis after 2 weeks (it really looked like Pettigrew was a number 4 target on the Lions after Megatron, Burleson, and Best ... and even Scheffler was getting the end zone work). Of course immediately after that move Pettigrew exploded and Davis becomes fantasy-useless. Yes ... I'm a moron In fact, if I didn't make that move I'd be 3-1.

Anyway, I posted a message that I'm looking to move my RB depth to improve at WR and/or TE. And the WR I get has to be better than Holmes and Harvin - I think I have a lot of ok WRs. I just lack a really good one to make me competitive at the position every week in my starting lineup. The first offer I got was what's in the thread title: his Bowe/Clark for my Harvin/Best. Even though Yahoo's "Evaluate Trade" button loves it for me, I'm not so enthusiastic. Harvin's been scoring just a smidge less than Bowe - and that's without Harvin seemingly having good games. Best is quite a good fantasy scorer in PPR - and like Harvin, it doesn't even seem we've seen him at his Best yet (no pun intended!). And Clark ... well damn, he seems pretty useless (fantasy-wise) without Manning. The reason why Yahoo's projections like the trade so much is because: a) those projections have been underestimating Best all season, and b) they're still projecting Clark to put up numbers like he did with Manning (10+ points a game, or consistent 5/50 games with 50% chance of a TD).

So what I pose to the Cafe is this: do you agree with my assessment of that offer? And if not, do you have a good idea for a counter? Our teams seem well-suited for a WR-for-RB trade. Here are the lineups:

My team
QB: Brees, Flacco
RB: Foster, SJax, Best, McGahee, Jacobs, Scott (still waiting for that Benson suspension)
WR: Holmes, Harvin, Lance Moore, Mike Thomas, Antonio Brown
TE: Fred Davis, Jared Cook
K: Kasay
DEF: Titans
D: Bishop

His team
QB: Vick, Sanchez
RB: Tolbert, Hightower, Reggie Bush, Ben Tate, Earnest Graham
WR: Wallace, Nicks, Bowe, Decker, Doucet, Mason
TE: Gronkowski, Clark
K: Vinatieri
DEF: Giants
D: Ray Lewis

You see, this guy is truly dreadful at RB - especially with Tolbert, Hightower, Bush, and Tate all losing touches that they were getting earlier in the year. If nothing else, doing a trade that gets me my Foster handcuff would be a positive.

I'd appreciate any insight. Leave a link and I'll answer yours!

[scalqq]

Gotta agree with you on your assessment for the most part, but I think Clark will get more action as Painter starts to get more familiar with the Colts offense. They'll use Clark for check-down passes for Painter, so I think Clark will get some work, but hey, what do I know about football?

Hope this helps - basically, I think by the end of the season, you'll have lost a stronger WR for a lesser WR and an average TE.

Thanks for your insight in my thread, by the way.

[TugzMcBoat]

I like your assessment as well...two things to consider though

1-I think Clark will be strong this week. Painter looked good on Monday and you cant take his targets with painter in that one week as the bar for the rest of the season, not to mention KC is terrible against TE. Clark still has the talent to be top 5


2- Best not only will help you in PPR but he's more of a feast or famine type of RB, so while you may lose a little bit in consistency, the rest of your team is very consistent and so having best will definitely on those occasions when its really close (apparently every game for) Best will have games that push you over the top.

thanks for the help on mine

[schmidty]

Any suggestions for counters though? That's the main thing I was looking for when making this post. I was already pretty confident that the trade wasn't good for me "as is".

[TugzMcBoat]

Any suggestions for counters though? That's the main thing I was looking for when making this post. I was already pretty confident that the trade wasn't good for me "as is".

on the contrary...I kinda like this trade for you

*EDIT* shit my B... I was reading these trades backwards....one moment lol

*EDIT x2* I would counter with McGahee/Harvin for Nicks/Clark or Tate depending on which one you want

[schmidty]

I would counter with McGahee/Harvin for Nicks/Clark or Tate depending on which one you want

While I'd like an upgrade to TE, I don't think Clark is it. McGahee/Harvin for Nicks/Tate would be fantastic IMO. Could that possibly be accepted?

In keeping things simple, I was thinking of either trying to use SJax to get either Nicks or Wallace ... or going down a peg, using McGahee to get Bowe. And on the flip side of that, offer him a lower-level WR (like Thomas) to get Ben Tate.

[TugzMcBoat]

I mean you might have to explain to him the reasoning behind it if he's not FF savy, but yea its a fair trade given his RB lineup. Foster looked fantastic and Tate is hurt... Moreno was supposedly healthy and got minimal work so its looking like McGahee's rodeo unless something happens. Offer it and see what happens

[schmidty]

I mean you might have to explain to him the reasoning behind it if he's not FF savy, but yea its a fair trade given his RB lineup. Foster looked fantastic and Tate is hurt... Moreno was supposedly healthy and got minimal work so its looking like McGahee's rodeo unless something happens. Offer it and see what happens

I sent out the counter: McGahee/Harvin for Wallace/Tate. Asking for Nicks felt like a bit much (I'm assuming Nicks is valued higher, even though Wallace has been more productive so far). We'll see. If it drives him away completely, so be it. If the other guy checks these kinds of things, the "Evaluate Trade" function has both of our teams improving our starting lineup. I'm open to further negotiation. If you just look at our lineups, we seem perfect to trade with one another. And by fortune of the schedule, I'll never face this team again (unless it's playoffs).

The owner of Owen Daniels and Aaron Hernandez sent a note saying they'd be open to trading one of the two. If the first team (the one with Nicks/Wallace/Bowe) doesn't work out, I think a McGahee/Cook for Daniels offer should seem 100% reasonable (he needs help at RB as well).

[Fufynono]

I like your counter offer and it seems fair. You could justify it working in his favor to him with Ben being banged up that it could hurt Wallace going forward. I don't think it's going to hurt his fantasy value but if you can convince him it will he'll be more likely to pull the trigger. I think your counter is fair and if he declines the trade I'd work on the trade for Owen Daniels instead since I think he'll be seeing more targets with Andre Johnson out for awhile.

[schmidty]

Here's something (which I may regret tacking on the end of this thread instead of making a new one). If my counter is rejected, which of these trade offers do you like the most (and would sent out first):

A. McGahee/Cook for Owen Daniels

or

B. Steven Jackson/Mike Thomas for Nicks/Ben Tate

or

C. McGahee/Mike Thomas for Bowe/Tate

If I targeted Bowe in trade B or offered Best in trade C, it feels like giving up too much for my team.